Blown F430 engine! | Page 8 | FerrariChat

Blown F430 engine!

Discussion in '360/430' started by Salsero, Oct 23, 2011.

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  1. Michael B

    Michael B F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 28, 2004
    3,758
    US of A
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Yeah man! How did this pan out?
     
  2. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige F1 Veteran

    Nov 7, 2011
    6,114
    Three Places
    I am new to this thread and just spent the time going through the history and don't have much new to add except a common sense perspective.

    I don't pretend to know the answer to the question of the effect of repeated encounters with the rev limiter. But I suspect that Salsero's run on the fateful day was not the only time that he enjoyed the F430 in this way. So the car probably had a fairly large number of such encounters. Then it becomes a probability game; the more encounters, the more likely there will be a failure. Think about the fact that in endurance racing, one tries to keep the revs below redline to try to find the 'sweet spot' between shortened lap times and durability.

    I am grateful to Salsero for sharing his experience with us and also congratulate him for working through this in the rational way that he has. Perhaps we have all learned something.
     
  3. Salsero

    Salsero Karting

    Oct 6, 2006
    198
    MY
    Full Name:
    Rezal
    After a loooong wait for parts, the engine rebuild is back underway. However, we're trying to decide whether the piston rings on the good 6 pistons need to be replaced? At USD 311 per set (from Ricambi) x 6, they ain't exactly peanuts.

    Car only has 16,xxx miles. 2 pistons were replaced completely, along with the sleeves and valves. But the other 6 pistons are fine (although we did not do a compression test prior to the incident).

    It's a tempting "since we're already rebuilding the engine" proposition but I also worry about matching the new rings with the existing sleeves (where the existing ones have already worn in together with the sleeves when it left the factory).

    Thoughts?
     
  4. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 30, 2005
    1,158
    Toulouse (France)
    Full Name:
    Eric DECOUX
    Just my thoughts :
    Perform a leak test on those 6 cylinders with a plate on top to replace the cylinder head. It can be a very simple plate you move from cylinder to cylinder.
     
  5. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,452
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Hi Salsero,

    Delighted you're back with us and sharing your experience.

    You can probably do without my internet-armchair advice so I'll stay quiet and let those with real knowledge chime in.

    You did wait for the new crank correct? What else is being changed out other than the two pistons, rings sleeves, valves you mentioned above?

    Have you managed to get the new sleeves installed? I'd be very interested to see how this is done as I believe that outside of the factory it is not an easy task.

    Best of luck and keep posting progress please. We're rooting for you!
     
  6. WJGESQ

    WJGESQ Formula 3

    Dec 30, 2004
    1,477
    That is a great line. "red for a reason".
     
  7. CogitoErgoZoom

    CogitoErgoZoom Formula Junior

    Apr 20, 2012
    520
    Caves of Altamira
    Full Name:
    Marc
    Well, I just finished my popcorn and I'm still waiting on the big ending. How's the reassembly process going?
     
  8. F430GT

    F430GT Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2005
    1,300
    Marco Island, FL
    always replace rings and all bearings when engine is open.

    Can you send me the contact info on the 4.7 and 4.9 engine builder? I know the Maserati 4.2/4.7 V8 as well as the 458/California 4.5 are the same engines as the F430.

    A 4.9 V8 and 9,000 rpm on a custom build, sounds way too tempting.
     
  9. Salsero

    Salsero Karting

    Oct 6, 2006
    198
    MY
    Full Name:
    Rezal
    Hi Guys,

    Apologies for the much delayed post. Lots of stuff going on in my personal life including job relocation, etc. but I owe everyone an update.

    The car was finally back on the road in April. The rebuilt was delayed due to missing parts (some confusion on how many piston rings and bearings I needed to order, etc.) and my tech's busy schedule.

    The car has been running great since then. I think I've put on around 2k already with no issues (knock on wood!). So at this point, I think it's back in rude health.

    Essentially, we replaced the crankshaft (the longest source of delay), two pistons and conrods, 8 valves, all the bearings and conrod pins, all gaskets, a few hoses, new studs, new oil pump filters, etc.

    All in all, about USD 7k-8k or so in parts. With labor and customs duties thrown in, the total came to about less than half of what it would've cost me if I had replaced the entire engine with a new one (last time I checked, used F430 engines were going for USD 25k, excl shipping to Malaysia). Of note however was that this was done by my independent and not at the official Ferrari dealer (their labor rates would have probably doubled the cost!).

    We suspect the failure was due to either the conrod pins coming loose, and then having the conrod chew the bearings; or the bearings going, and then causing the pins to come loose. If I had shut the engine down earlier, we might've saved the crankshaft and pistons. On the flip side, had I let engine run further, we would've been looking at a replacement engine and one expensive (but cool looking) coffee table stand.
     
  10. Nathan360

    Nathan360 Karting

    Apr 17, 2010
    154
    Manchester / England
    Full Name:
    Nathan
    Love it when a plan comes together. Enjoy the next upshift at 8.5K!

    N
     
  11. Trent

    Trent Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2003
    2,013
    Indialantic, FL
    Full Name:
    Trent
    Thanks for the update with final parts and pricing. Look at the bright side, at ~$13k for a repair (parts and labor) thats about what someone just paid to get the windshield wipers fixed and the major belt service on a 99 360! ...so your major repair is sounding like a bargain.

    I am very glad you are not only back on the road but also with 2k under your odometer you are "out of the woods".

    4-5 months is a long time to be without your girl. My F430 was down for a couple of months (header failure) and it was just killing me. My delay was OEM Ferrari part delays as well.

    Drive in good health!
     
  12. tonyswfla

    tonyswfla Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 2, 2007
    823
    Florida
    could have been worse like that mondiale with 3 engine outs in one year!!!LOL
     
  13. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,214
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    Like that ever happened, wait, it did. :eek:
     
  14. mikegr

    mikegr Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2012
    414
    Europe
    Have you installed the Capristo Headers too?
     
  15. Salsero

    Salsero Karting

    Oct 6, 2006
    198
    MY
    Full Name:
    Rezal
    Yup. Love the sound. Adds a throaty hollowness at idle and low rpms, a clearer baritone growl at higher rpms.

    Alas, I still prefer the high pitched sound of the F355. Perhaps a Kreissig exhaust would solve this... down the road...
     
  16. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,452
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Delighted to hear you're back on the road. Well done.

    355 -v- 430? Probably not possible to achieve, the higher displacement of the 430 just produces a different sound.

    Enjoy and thanks for reporting back.
     
  17. 993man

    993man Formula Junior

    Sep 20, 2009
    872
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Wow, what a storey. I just read the complete thread.
    Not such a bad outcome in the end I guess. Glad the car is back on the road.
     
  18. JWeiss

    JWeiss F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 18, 2010
    7,243
    NYC and Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    JWeiss
    Fer sure! My son and I (in 430) caught up with a 355 on the road a few weeks ago and traded blasts for a couple of miles. The Boy's first reaction: "Does he [the 355] have an aftermarket exhaust or something? Why does it sound like that?"

    I said: "Son, that's the beloved 355 sound right there."
     
  19. F1COS

    F1COS Rookie

    Oct 20, 2008
    16
    London UK
    #194 F1COS, Mar 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Apologies for dragging up an old thread, however a similar thing has happened to me although nowhere near as bad. I could hear an ever so slight rattle between 3000-3500 rpm. So i pulled the motor out to have a look and this is what i found. Now my question is this. Did ferrari make a dodgy batch of shells? I cannot see what would cause this other that a bad big end shell or bad oil (shell helix 5w-40). The car has never during my ownership, been low on oil or been thrashed from cold. Ive had my car for 4 yrs and this rattle has only developed in the last year. Luckily for me this has done no damage to the crank or anything else and i rekon if the OP caught his early enough he would have been in the same boat as me. Mines a very early f430.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    I've always wondered why "tracked the car" is so different from regular use.

    on my 360, when I drive on public roads, I'd say I rev the car to 7500-8000 every 5 min if not less (remember that doesn't mean my speed is insane, i just downshift)

    I've never been to a real track so I was guessing on track you people are doing 7500-8000 for every second ?




     
  21. Mozella

    Mozella Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2013
    905
    Piemonte, Italia
    Geez........... Every machine I've ever owned had "ever so slight rattles". But I've never jerked an engine out just to have a look.

    I hear ever so slight rattles just sitting here at my computer.

    Congratulations on your success, but I doubt if I'm going to start looking inside my various power plants. However, I will start feeling nervous.

    Perhaps my wife is correct when she says to me, "You're about as sensitive as a toilet seat".
     
    F1fletch likes this.
  22. F1COS

    F1COS Rookie

    Oct 20, 2008
    16
    London UK

    Lol. I have mechanical ocd!! If it aint right, fix it!! And if i cant fix it then i dont want it!
     
  23. sleepinglh

    sleepinglh Karting

    Jul 30, 2015
    82
    Sydney Australia
    Full Name:
    Q
    Engine life up near the red line is counted in seconds.
     
    2NA likes this.
  24. Way2fast

    Way2fast Formula 3

    May 24, 2006
    2,207
    Santa Barbara County
    Full Name:
    Sam
    When the 3 yr warranty ran out on my 2007 430 I asked my service manager if I should extend it for $5K for the year. He said the only engines he had seen blown up were cars that were tracked. So I don't track it
     
  25. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,625
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    No, it really isn't. Do you think a manufacturer would release a car with an engine that wouldn't survive a warranty period? Especially in a car that doesn't log rev limit history (Porsche).

    The 'red line' is a design limit. During production the engines are pinned at full throttle for days to check durability.

    These engines are designed to be revved. Power through high RPM is the primary design goal.
     

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