F430 adventures in changing spark plugs | FerrariChat

F430 adventures in changing spark plugs

Discussion in '360/430' started by gatago, May 18, 2020.

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  1. gatago

    gatago Karting

    Jun 28, 2019
    119
    Full Name:
    Marco
    Changed out spark plugs in my F430 (as title suggests) and found the dreaded black goo on cylinder #2 plug. I thought "just my luck" and naturally I assumed gasket, and started shopping around for a full set.

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  2. gatago

    gatago Karting

    Jun 28, 2019
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    Marco
    I was sitting down drinking a beer and inspecting all the plugs and circled back to this one and noticed discoloration along the insulator, something I haven't seen before besides in a plug failure.
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  3. gatago

    gatago Karting

    Jun 28, 2019
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    Marco
    When I wiped some of the goo away, I noticed that the gasket was deformed and thought, crap, a ferrari mechanic installed a defective plug without bothering to check it. But it turned out to be worse than that.


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  4. gatago

    gatago Karting

    Jun 28, 2019
    119
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    Marco
    The reason for the bent gasket was a side electrode from another plug was jammed between the gasket and the plug shell. The plug had been torqued down and crushed the metal shard into the gasket.

    I went from thinking "just my luck" to "holy crap am I lucky!". If that shard would have fallen into the combustion chamber as I was removing the plug, I would never have known it, and might have ended up with some potentially expensive damage.

    The thing that should frighten owners is that the previous spark plug change was done at a Ferrari dealer in California, with receipts to prove it.
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  5. BrettC

    BrettC Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2012
    1,978
    Calif
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    Brett
    Good catch...you'd be surprised how many mistakes get made on all cars in shops. Glad you caught it.
     
  6. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Sep 1, 2013
    1,759
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    Raimondo
    Fascinating. I just can’t imagine how that may have happened. Remarkable that didn’t end up in the cylinder. No cel or misfire?

    So with that finding, what’s on the plug, oil or incomplete combustion residue?

    Personally I’d be curious and do a compression test.




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  7. gatago

    gatago Karting

    Jun 28, 2019
    119
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    Marco
    #7 gatago, May 19, 2020
    Last edited: May 19, 2020

    No cel or misfires. The plugs were last changed 15k miles ago, and about 5 years. so I think there was a very slight blowby due to the gasket not being fully seated and it's just a buildup of residue. None of the other plugs had anything on them, they looked very clean.

    I don't ever use anti seize with NGKs since they recommend not to use it, but these had a noticeable amount on them. My theory is that the Ferrari shop that installed these didn't keep a clean shop and the metal must have dropped into the anti seize tub or bottle at some point and then transferred to the plug before install. most shops don't keep tubes of the stuff, since they go through so much of it. They typically use open top bottles/tubs so it's easy for contamination to happen if not careful.

    Honestly, it's a mistake that could have cost the previous owner a crap load of money, and no way to prove how it happened. And it could have easily caused issues for me. I always laugh when I read posts or talk to friends with high end cars that brag about all service being done at the dealer. I don't see any difference in quality between a fezza dealer, and an indi. At least you can get to know the indi and build trust.
    I started doing all my maintenance and repairs myself after a toyota service shop cross-threaded an oil filter on my car and I drove 15 before my oil light came on. I ended up stuck in a parking lot waiting for a tow truck.

    what would you be looking for with a compression test? possible damage from other metal that could have gotten in?
     
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  8. recoil

    recoil Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2007
    461
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Steve
    When it's time to do mine, I was thinking of using a fibre optic camera to examine each plug area for trash before removing them.

    Thoughts on feasibility? Crazy idea?

    Steve
     
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  9. gatago

    gatago Karting

    Jun 28, 2019
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    Marco
    not a bad idea if you have a camera. I hear they're pretty cheap now, and I might get one for other reasons.

    If you don't have one, maybe using some compressed air to blow out any lose debris might take care of it.
     
  10. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2017
    1,224
    Santa Clarita, CA
    The electrode on the plug looks a good color, so I’m sure you’re fine.


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  11. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Sep 1, 2013
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    Interesting thought about the electrode being debris in the never seize. I’ve been torn about using it on spark plug threads for the 360. The mechanic that trained me when I worked in his shop when I was 19, always used it for aluminum heads. I’ve carried it over since but I use a very light coating of copper. There are different from pros opinions here on the 360 spark plugs and it’s use.

    Yea I would have thought of what the heck else did these clowns drop in there. I thought about the scope but you won’t be able to see the valves. I prob would have used it as a chance to check the compression, even just that cylinder and an adjacent one for comparison. If it’s been 15 k miles you are prob fine as far as any catastrophic issue and it would just be academic.


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  12. recoil

    recoil Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2007
    461
    Virginia
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    Steve
    I just bought some for 25 bucks off Amazon for either Android or IOS. I was thinking of replacing the spark plugs in the near future.

    Steve
     
  13. gatago

    gatago Karting

    Jun 28, 2019
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    Marco
    I would def use it then. I'd love to see inside of the cylinder and piston if I had the chance, just out of interest.
     
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  14. gatago

    gatago Karting

    Jun 28, 2019
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    Marco
    I normally use anti-seize for applications where different types of metal touch, especially when current has the potential to pass through. I have always used it for low end spark plugs, but when I looked at the NGK site, they specifically stated not to use it, and that they provide a coating that breaks loose during removal. See bellow:

    From NGK website:

    1. Anti-seize

    NGK spark plugs feature what is known as trivalent plating. This silver- or chrome-colored finish on the threads is designed to provide corrosion resistance against moisture and chemicals. The coating also acts as a release agent during spark plug removal. NGK spark plugs are installed at the factory dry, without the use of anti-seize. NGK tech support has received a number of tech calls from installers who have over-tightened spark plugs because of the use of anti-seize. Anti-seize compound can act as a lubricant altering torque values up to 20 percent, increasing the risk of spark plug thread breakage.
     
  15. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
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    Wow. You're so lucky that the seat is okay.
     
  16. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Sep 1, 2013
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    Had no idea about the coating on ngk. Thanks for sharing that. So the WSM recommends “lubricant “ on the threads but seems that is for the old champion plugs that have been superseded by the NGK.

    So the question now is what are the pros here doing? And let’s say at some interval after a change you remove a plug for some reason and put it back, is that coating still ok?

    If you have been using anti seize should you stop going forward?
     
  17. gatago

    gatago Karting

    Jun 28, 2019
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    Marco
    great questions. I was going to see how they come out after 15k miles, and decide then. If I have to remove one then put it right back before then, I’m putting a bit on there.
    I’d love to hear what professionals are doing as well.
     
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,074
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    Instead of looking at the spark plug well, just use compressed air to blow out any crud that is in there.
     
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  19. Testarossa Lover

    Testarossa Lover F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2006
    3,621
    Newport Beach, CA
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    Haig Barsamian
    Hi guys, just curious how often you guys change plugs on F430? Mine is at 26,500 on original plugs and I have no issues or lack of performance.
     
  20. AandSC

    AandSC Formula Junior
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    Dec 12, 2016
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    Jax, FL
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    Allen
    I changed mine at 12 years, 22.5K miles. Should be good for another 12 years now.
     
  21. Tony H

    Tony H Karting

    Sep 3, 2013
    156
    Whenever you change plugs, or when a good mechanic changes them, you should "read" (examine) the old plugs to check the health of the engine. You'd have to be pretty blind not to see a missing electrode and you should have been getting CEL's.
     
  22. DeuceRooster

    DeuceRooster Karting

    Jun 11, 2005
    163
    Kentucky
    Full Name:
    Dustin
    Wow, very lucky! Also great information on not using anti-seize on NGKs I was not aware of that.
     
  23. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
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    Mar 1, 2012
    3,253
    New Zealand
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    Glen
    Car would be misfiring badly with a dead cylinder if an electrode was missing. The OP had 1 extra electrode, jammed in the plug seat.
     
  24. NMNMNMN

    NMNMNMN Formula Junior
    BANNED

    I just bought one for 80 bucks? At Home Depot just to inspect the engine on my F430 better


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