Thank you luvair and Need4Spd for your kind words. Need4Spd I couldn't agree more: I know the DCT fluid is supposed to last the whole life of the car, whatever that may mean in practice. Nothing lasts forever and other owners have stated here that Ferrari won't change the DCT fluid during routine maintenance, unless the owner specifically asks the technicians to. So, in my humble opinion, adding to avoid city traffic and heat soaking, having the fluid changed regularly is also important even though most failures are sensor-related and not actual mechanical faults. Regularly changing fluids won't harm you, quite the opposite. Also: If I understand correctly, I've uncovered three types of DCT failures (by descending order of apparent occurence): - Temperature sensor failure. - Speed sensor failure. - Mechanical failure. Most of the time we just address the issue as DCT failure when, in practice, if we are to be more rigorous, there are several kinds of failure and the rarer of them all being an actual catastrophic DCT/transmission mechanical failure. Also, I think we're rather lucky for having a wet clutch on our cars, which imho greatly reduces clutch wear. Kind regards, Nuno.
Nuno, Great info. May I ask why you had to replace all four brake rotors ? Some kind of failure, or just used them up on track, etc.?
Hi Skipp, Sure, no problem. Previous owner tried (as I later found out - too late I'm afraid) to get rid of brake squeaking by cleaning the disc brakes with a super abrasive chemical product. To add insult to injury, he did so with reasonably hot brakes. Disc surface ended up being compromised. Felt like sandpaper to touch and although I test drove the car and found it to be perfectly ok (some very light vibration under medium braking, almost imperceptible), discs weren't operating as designed and they would start eating up the pads. Any set of pads. For that matter, dealer advised me to replace disc brakes and so I did. In my humble opinion, carbon-ceramic disc brakes last a very long time under normal road use and even if tracked, they can take the abuse and the heat. "Normally", the only way you can really damage them is if you do something really wrong when you're not behind the wheel. Kindest regards, Nuno.
Thanks for answering and good insight. What an expensive lesson. Too bad the guy who sprayed the discs wasn’t the one to learn the lesson. I’ve got a CS which I hope never to replace the discs on !
Anyone interested in knowing the intimate details regarding the design and operation of the 458 DCT should read this (see below link). I have, probably 100 times and I still learn things! http://amsdottorato.unibo.it/5683/1/Olivi_Davide_tesi.pdf
I don't believe there were any issues with the gearbox on the Speciales; as far as I know, the issue only related to early production 458 Italia. I don't know the specifics of it all, but I seem to remember whatever the issue was, it was largely resolved by mid 2012 or something. I seem to remember someone commenting that it was a sensor or something. If you search through the forums on here, you can find some further information. Ray
Do you know how many 458 models/ variants and Californias were sold during their 5 year production cycle? I would estimate around close to 20,000 cars. in order to make a statement which has any accuracy about the incidence of failures or repairs, we need data. FChat— as much as I love and respect this site-/is not the right tool to discuss topics wanting to draw statistical conclusions. Let me ask the following question: how many FChat members who currrenyl own a 458 or California have chimed in discussing their DCT histories in this thread? Not enough to draw any meaningful general conclusions, in my opinion. BTW the Ferrari-Getrag DCT has been used in every Ferrari made since 2010.
No year is immune. I know of a ‘13 that had an issue too. Isolated to a sensor within the gearbox. Failure is still rare regardless of the year. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I agree about opening the hatch better to not let those hoses and everything else cook in there at ridiculous temps
Same here. I’m always worried about heat being trapped, and heat cycles over time. The highest temperatures our cars achieve is immediately after turning the key off, as they’re at their service temperature but cooling is abruptly cut off. When our cars are new, it’s never good practice but that’s not much of an issue, but when they reach 8, 10, 15 years old, I bet it will take a toll sooner or later. In the summertime, our engines run at nearly 100°C, add to that 30°C plus air temperatures and the near zero cooling of city traffic (plus hot summer air has residual cooling capacity anyway), and our engines are desperate not to cook themselves to death. I always lift the hood up upon arrival and, when I have the time and the mood, I turn on a household fan and point it at the rear of the car. It’s not appropriately strong, but it can’t do any harm. Next owner will thank me I guess Kindest regards, Nuno.
As far as heat, the 458 and it’s mid rear descendants, have a couple of advantages. First the engineers designed two dedicated cooling radiators servicing the DCT. Secondly and equally importantly, the distance from the DCT to the radiators is a very very short throw. For those who have studied fluid dynamics, will appreciate the huge advantage. Depending upon the cooling pipe diameter, the flow rate drops off significantly for every multiple of the plumbing length. This is a dusting advantage when the fluids need to be pumped to the front of the car. Shorter is better!
I have a theory regarding heat. As we know, fast cooling or heating (expansion and contraction) can be bad for materials (metals and plastics in this case). So I was thinking..... Do you guys think that opening the hatch when hot, can cause more damage than good, due to rapid cooling? I know that when I park my car, and let it cool slowly, it stays quiet. If I open the engine cover, it makes a lot of cracking and popping noises as it cools (I'm thinking that's mostly the exhaust components). Therefore, I decided to just leave the hatch closed and trust that the Ferrari engineers designed the car properly to handle the heat soak. If it was an issue leaving it closed, wouldn't the owners manual direct us to open the hatch after each drive?
I dont care, the car was engineered by engeneers or carpenters? Mine always stays closed no matter how hard I push it. If it breaks because of that the car is a piece of crap and I will sell it and buy another model/brand.
Chris, That’s actually an interesting and pertinent question. I think you may be right, but only in the event of a temperature “shock”. When the difference is rapid and huge, it can be detrimental. For instance, in F1 they used dry ice to cool radiators, or blow cool air with special blowers on braking ducts when cars came in for a pitstop. However, F1 cars a couple of decades back, were made to last 300 km or 2 hours, whichever happened first. I think the difference between air temperature and engine temperature isn’t harmful. Not that much difference, and it allows hot air to escape over time (several hours). Due to the no shock factor, I think opening the engine lid does more good than harm. Just my two cents anyway. Nevertheless, I agree the car should be able to cope with us not helping it cool. Kind regards, Nuno.
I've read this entire thread. I currently own a 2003 F1 360. I have to say it has been a joy and my first Ferrari. I have owned many 3 pedal 911s and switched camps with the purchase of the F1 360. I've owned the car now for about 3 years. It has about 26K miles on it and I love it. But I have to admit, lately I've been thinking of moving into a 458 and I have driven one. The 458 is a beautiful car but the electrics scare me. I keep my cars for a long time and reading about the DCT failures here (and of course the cost to repair) are a major concern for me despite loving the looks of the 458. I've been contemplating a 458 but... I have to say with the 36o F1, as Nuno points out, the electrics are outside of the trans. Of course there are the F1 failures but for the most part they are easily and most importantly affordably addressed. And since I work on my own cars, I kind of shy away from the 458 because of the tech that myself (and most) would not have the tools, diagnostic equipment, and most importantly, the knowledge to repair. I truly appreciate the information shared on this forum. Thanks to all. As for the lifting of the decklid on my 360 after a spirited drive; I always have. And I can tell you my 360 will heat up my entire 2 car home garage like an oven. I live in Florida so the ambient temps are no shock to the engine or components as it is never really "cold" here anymore no matter what time of year it is. I have to think that all that heat contained in the engine bay is not helping anything. Certainly hoses and misc. rubber parts alone would suffer more than necessary without the circulation of airflow while the car is moving under power. Great forum, thanks to all. Cheers, Ken
I too have been thinking hard about a 458. Right now I have a 328 and love the car and feel like if something goes wrong I can fix it unless it’s something major. I actually drove 2 458s last week ( coupe and spider) and LOVED them. But damn.......the thought of a big transmission repair does worry me a bit. Temper that with the cars do have a great reliability record I suppose.
I understand where you’re coming from. I once had a Mondial and was scared to death about buying a car with lots of complicated electronics... Until I did and it was the best thing I could have done, comfort, performance and enjoyment-wise. I’d humbly advise you not to be put off by potential gearbox troubles. Can they happen? Sure. But if you take into account the number of failures versus number of cars manufactured, you’re looking at a failure rate no higher than any other potential trouble on any other car on the face of this Earth, except very few cars on the face of this Earth (if any), can give you what a 458 can. If you take care of the car, it will take care of you. The rest shouldn’t keep you awake at night, imvho. Kind regards, Nuno.
Hey Nuno Super solid response and very much appreciated. I have really been reading a lot about 458s, watching reviews etc. My wife videoed some off my test drive and I keep watching those videos. The sound that car makes......it’s something else!
458 is super solid, before the gearbox has problems the 488, Pista and F8 will need to change turbos, pipes etc.
I bought my first Ferrari in Oct 2018, a 2015 458 Italia. What an amazing car all the way. this is the first car that don't get me bored one second. Beautiful outside and inside, now with 11,300mi, perfect quality, and runs like a champ.
