Chassis 0674 revised history? | FerrariChat

Chassis 0674 revised history?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by NunoRosso, May 30, 2020.

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  1. NunoRosso

    NunoRosso Karting

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    #1 NunoRosso, May 30, 2020
    Hello,

    The other day I was watching this video () and a statement from the consignor got me confused: he mentions that his car was born as a 290 MM, then converted to 315 S and finally upgraded to 335 S specifications.

    I checked on barchetta.cc and they've changed chassis 0674 history: according to them, this car was born as 0626, competed in the 1956 MM, 1000 Km Nuerburgring, Rouen and Swedish GPs and was then converted to 315 S chassis, thus starting the '0674' timeline. They justify this revision by the presence of '0626' stampings on the car (you can see the stamping photos on their website).

    Also according to them, the 290 MM old engine was put together in a new chassis, thus creating the 'current' 0626, starting its racing history in the 1957 Buenos Aires 1000 Km.

    Considering both cars were sold recently and I'd guess a lot of due diligence was made to ensure both cars had no holes in their stellar history, was this a new discovery made by the new owners?

    Or perhaps a "by-product" (some part-swapping) of the lengthy ownership of those two cars by Mr. Bardinon and it's just a misunderstanding?
     
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  2. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 Marcel Massini, May 30, 2020
    The car has three chassis numbers: 0626 (on the right, with the last digit "6" hidden by tube), 0656 (on the left in below photo) and 0674 (above).
    Not a misunderstanding, no new discovery. And the factory is fully aware of this.
    No secret whatsoever.
    All part of due diligence.

    Marcel Massini

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  3. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    #3 DWR46, May 30, 2020
    Marcel: So what is the history of this car as you currently believe?
     
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  4. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

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    #4 Timmmmmmmmmmy, May 31, 2020
    It would be fascinating to know how this affects the histories of #0626 and 0656. We all know what happened to #0674 post 1957 but before that? And Barchettas opinion that #0626 became #0674 while another new #0626 was built for Temple Buell, is only one of two equally plausible theories that spring to mind.
     
  5. NunoRosso

    NunoRosso Karting

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    #5 NunoRosso, May 31, 2020
    Thank you all for your replies. Like Timothy, I'm also curious about how this affect 0626 history.

    Back in 2015 one of the main selling points of this car was the fact that was driven by Fangio in the 1956 MM, proudly sporting the yellow-blue nose. But which car was there, after all?

    Regarding the 0656 stamping, Artcurial explained it on an addendum:

     
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  6. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

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    #6 Timmmmmmmmmmy, May 31, 2020
    Le Mans used to require entry by the start of the year and had to include the chassis # of the car entered. Several races would be held in the meantime incl. the Mille Miglia and Targa Florio (?) and would lead to the possibility that the car on the entry list was no longer available so a simple work around was to renumber a similar car and put that through scrutineering. Meanwhile I don't wonder if the car started as #0674 and wasn't stamped with #0626 for carnet reasons. Customs wouldn't be any the wiser. But again I am keen to find out the answer.
     
  7. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

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    #7 Timmmmmmmmmmy, May 31, 2020
    Le Mans used to require entry by the start of the year and had to include the chassis # of the car entered. Several races would be held in the meantime incl. the Mille Miglia and Targa Florio (?) and would lead to the possibility that the car on the entry list was no longer available so a simple work around was to renumber a similar car and put that through scrutineering. Meanwhile I don't wonder if the car started as #0674 and wasn't stamped with #0626 for carnet reasons. Customs wouldn't be any the wiser. But again I am keen to find out the answer.
     
  8. BMWairhead

    BMWairhead Formula 3

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    #8 BMWairhead, May 31, 2020
    I’ve traveled with carnets and have no doubt the system was manipulated. But...I don’t see how customs could be none the wiser when the old stampings are right there. IOW, the number was an addition, not a replacement. (I’m referring to Marcel’s photo above)
     
  9. 375+

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    #9 375+, May 31, 2020
    That is how the chassis stampings appear now--full disclosure. In period the unwanted stamping(s) was buried beneath the paint.
     
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  10. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

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    #10 readplays, May 31, 2020
    Or over-stamped.
     
  11. TTR

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    #11 TTR, May 31, 2020
    It does appear the earlier stampings had received some rudimentary sanding/scratching prep, perhaps to provide for paint adhesion, which I wouldn’t be surprised was done in period to cover them up or can anyone imagine trying to explain presence of two or three different numbers at border crossings or race scrutineering.
     
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  12. 375+

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    #12 375+, May 31, 2020
    0626 and 0656 look like the same font; the stamps used for 0674 are different. Stamped elsewhere, not by the factory?
     
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  13. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 Marcel Massini, Jun 1, 2020
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  14. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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  15. Marcel Massini

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  16. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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  17. Marcel Massini

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  18. Marcel Massini

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    #18 Marcel Massini, Jun 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
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  19. Marcel Massini

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  20. Marcel Massini

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  21. Marcel Massini

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  22. Timmmmmmmmmmy

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    #22 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Jun 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
    In 1957 the customs officers in Argentina, France, Sweden or anywhere else would only have checked the manifest matched the goods. They would have had zero ability to actually check whether the item was original or anything more than what was listed. And if a number matched why would they have had concern? Hell a owner could simply point to the "right" number and that would be that. Its not like a Swedish or Argentinian customs officer would have more than 1% chance of ever seeing a racing Ferrari before or again. Now a production car would be totally different with a set chassis plate needing inspection but a one off racer would simply need a little misdirection. Wouldn't it?

    I have read Marcels posts and seen the stampings but I still have little guidance on whether it began as #0626 or #0674. Why would they build a new car from a 1956 chassis frame and then build a new car for sale with a brand new chassis frame. Wouldn't it be better to sell a 1956 frame (#0626) as a new one with a new number (#0674) AND build the new works car on a new frame (#0674) and restamp it to match (#0626)? Either way see's it stamped with both numbers.
     
  23. Marcel Massini

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  24. Marcel Massini

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  25. Marcel Massini

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