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car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #10076 anunakki, Jun 7, 2020

    A couple years ago when i went new house shopping I literally couldnt find any plans that builders were using that I found acceptable. Everything was overwrought
     
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  2. 330 4HL

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    #10077 330 4HL, Jun 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
    That's why we have architects - :)
    Seriously though, a good architect doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg; in fact depending on how "non conformist" you want to be, they can often save you money with good design solutions that reduce sq. ft., material costs, or build time.

    You'd be surprised at how difficult it can be to talk someone towards smaller...
     
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  3. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    #10078 jm2, Jun 8, 2020
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  4. Jeff Kennedy

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    #10079 Jeff Kennedy, Jun 8, 2020
    Allegedly the Pf relationship with Ferrari (pre-550 with LdM) was that a design was proposed and Ferrari either accepted it or rejected it. This resulted in a cohesive design much in the manner that you describe.

    There are multiple issue that designers can have with clinics.
    - Few consumers have a feel for trends. What they know is what they see as the other cars around them. They have no knowledge of where the industry is headed 2-5 years into the future.

    - If the clinic is showing a car(s) that is close in on going to production then the company has already locked in the majority of what is will be; too late to make major changes.

    - There is a belief that the clinic answers that get reported can be so manipulated that management can get whatever they want to report. In one of Bob Lutz' books he did a section just how extensively this was being done at GM when he came in as Vice-Chairman.

    - Clinics are a way to let management have a fallback excuse instead of using conviction.
     
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  5. Jeff Kennedy

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    #10080 Jeff Kennedy, Jun 8, 2020
    QUESTION: Do those Marvel designers think they are doing good design work or they see it as this is what the client wants?
     
  6. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #10081 anunakki, Jun 8, 2020
    Its probably a little of both. They are all pretty young. The visual dev director was only 31 years old when he started on the first Iron Man and he is a child of the 80s/anime and loves those super busy designs. Nice guy. Just not the same tastes as I have.
     
  7. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    #10082 jm2, Jun 8, 2020
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  8. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    #10083 jm2, Jun 9, 2020
    Buick Riviera 'Boat Tail' design story
    http://www.deansgarage.com/2020/1971-boat-tail-riviera-a-body/


    1971 Boat-Tail Riviera A-body
    June 9, 2020Leave a commentBruce Brooks
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    1971 Boat-Tail Riviera A-body
    By Bruce Brooks

    In early 1968 I transferred from Dick Ruzzin’s Adv. Oldsmobile Studio to Jerry Hirshberg’s Adv. Buick Studio which was on the north east end of the second floor of the Design Staff Building. At that same time Doug Cross also transferred there from Chevrolet 2 Studio.

    We transferred there to add to the clay modeling team that consisted of Frank Hughes, Frank Funk, Ben Vitale and Joe Henelt. Joe only worked on the 3/8th scale models. We were tasked with the sculpting of Bill Mitchell’s first design of the 1971 Boat-Tail Riviera. The clay armature was built to what were A-Body dimensions and configuration.

    At that time Hirshberg’s design team consisted of Len Casillo, Jerry Palmer, Tom Hale and Joan Klatil. They all did a great job of executing special details in design direction.
    The engineering team consisted of Tom Krauzowicz and Mike Fylan.

    Mitchell’s “Sweep Spear” design theme came the full length of the hood past the A-pillar without a break, across the door belt line to a graceful arc ending under the rear quarter window. The whole design impact of the models lines, shapes, and surfaces gave a feeling that the proportions were just right. We photographed the finished clay model in the studio with silver and black Di-Noc and foil trim late in April of 1968 for a Buick Division management concept review.

    Unfortunately GM Corporate management put a change of direction in front of Mitchell to have the car done to a B-Body dimension. With great regret Bill knew that change would compromise the beauty of the car’s “Sweep Spear” design theme. That decision was a huge mistake by upper GM management and I feel that led to the cars’ short life and ultimate demise. From sleek to lead-sled, nice move.

    With that new direction Casillo and Palmer transferred to other studios and Tom Hale departed GM Design. We did add John Houlihan’s design talent from Preliminary Design Studio.

    Our studio had to immediately start a new direction with the build of a B-Body clay armature placed in a rail located across the hall in a temporary studio next to Adv. Oldsmobile Studio. We just knew that the “Sweep Spear” theme would not be able to make it past those wide A-pillars of the B-Body armature and not have a considerable break in plan view. That theme idea ended there. We continued work on the new direction and in 1969 the armature was transferred with the remainder of our studio personnel down to our new Advanced Two Design Studio on the first floor where the old shops once were. After a short time there the 1971 B-Body Boat-Tail Riviera was sent to Buick Exterior Design Studio for a final production release.

    I will enclose a scanned photo of the finished first 1971 Buick Riviera Boat-Tail design direction of the A-Body clay model as it looked in the studio for the Buick Division review.



    Thanks, Bruce. More great studio stories by Bruce Brooks to come.

    Lots more studio shenanigan stories in the Dean’s Garage Book.

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  9. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #10084 energy88, Jun 9, 2020
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  10. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    #10085 jm2, Jun 9, 2020
    I never saw cars with that molding. Not sure it was factory, just can't remember. But definitely shouldn't be there!
     
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  11. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #10086 energy88, Jun 9, 2020
    Your discerning eyes filtered out the ugliness!

    I know for sure it was there. Back in the day, I ordered one and was told by the dealer that the molding was optional (NOT!) and I specifically put in the purchase order for it to be deleted. When the car arrived with the molding on the side, I refused delivery and eventually got my deposit back
     
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  12. Jeff Kennedy

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    #10087 Jeff Kennedy, Jun 9, 2020
    Too bad that Buick management did not do this Riv on the A special platform like the Monte Carlo and Grand Prix. But even at the smaller scale the "chrome jockstrap" rear bumper would have been something to point at.
     
  13. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    #10088 jm2, Jun 9, 2020
    Shame on them!

    W.L. Mitchell's Silver Arrows were a sight to behold
    http://www.carstyling.ru/en/car/1972_buick_riviera_silver_arrow_iii/



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  14. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    #10089 jm2, Jun 9, 2020
    Had an opportunity today to get up close to a Roma & an SP2 Monza. For an 'old school designer' like myself it was such a refreshing look at what Ferrari's in house design team under Mr. Manzoni have been able to accomplish. They've managed to capture the pure essence of what made the '50's - '60's Ferraris so iconic, without pandering to the curse of 'Retro'. I give them all the accolades they deserve. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  15. Jeff Kennedy

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    #10090 Jeff Kennedy, Jun 9, 2020
    How did the fender area at the A pillar look in person? There have been some comments here that in the photos it looked awkward.
     
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  16. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    #10091 jm2, Jun 9, 2020
    I was holding off for the time being as I took a series of photos.
    But to address your question, yes there is a surface anomaly where the hood, A-pillar, fender and door come together. That is probably one of the most difficult parts of a vehicle to 'get right'. It's there, but 99% of the population will never see it.
    I saw it.
    It's there.
    I'm sure there's a reason.
    I wouldn't have let that get released from the studio.
    Will it sell one less car? No.
    Maybe that's the 'Chinese flaw'. Look it up.

    Whoa, just tried to look that saying up. Nothing but Corona Virus stuff.
    I'll have to do some homework for you guys what a Chinese Flaw means.
     
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  17. Tenney

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    #10092 Tenney, Jun 9, 2020
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  18. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    #10093 jm2, Jun 9, 2020
    Now THAT has to be one of the coolest things I’ve seen in a long time! Unbridled creativity.
     
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  19. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    #10094 jm2, Jun 9, 2020
    I guess I'm not the only one that believes BMW Design is 'coming off the rails' of late.
    http://www.autoextremist.com has this to say about the new 4 Series:

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    Upon first glance, the new BMW 4 Series from a rear, 7/8 angle view is an elegant update of their current coupe design form. It is crisp and nicely rendered. Not bad, right? But when you get around to the front, all Hell breaks loose.

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    This is what BMW's PR minions say: "The vehicle’s design and engineering teams wanted to deliver the ultimate driving experience in a beautiful and low-slung package that ensures the 2021 4 Series Coupe stays at the top of its segment." This is what I say: This is such a design abomination from the front - even though the photographers tried their damnedest to conceal the sheer ugliness of it - that it is nothing short of an unmitigated disaster. How did this Bucky Beaver design escape the friendly confines of the BMW design studio? Didn’t anyone – Bueller? – have the cojones to stand up and say in a meeting, “Uh, excuse me, but what the hell are you guys thinking?” Obviously not. I attribute this monumental design atrocity to three things: Stubbornness. Arrogance. And hubris. Otherwise known as the Trifecta of Not Good. Any shred of optimism that BMW was going to get its act together anytime soon has been convincingly buried in one fell swoop.
     
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  20. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #10095 G. Pepper, Jun 9, 2020
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  21. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    #10096 jm2, Jun 9, 2020
    Both GM Design Concept cars.
    The name of the 1st one escapes me at the moment. Gettin' old I guess.
    The 2nd is the Buick Centurian Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  22. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #10097 energy88, Jun 9, 2020
  23. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #10098 energy88, Jun 9, 2020
    Maybe I should get rid of the tonneau cover and see about doing that to the El Camino? Wife would probably have me committed.
     
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  24. 330 4HL

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    #10099 330 4HL, Jun 9, 2020
    First one is the Firebird 4 I think. I remember when it came out around the same time as the Runabout (w/shopping cart!) and ever since then I co-mingle the two, attaching the rear of one to the front of the other. I also remember thinking that this was a Ford effort as the rear was a bit like the Apollo (??)
     
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  25. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    #10100 jm2, Jun 9, 2020
    Yes I believe you’re correct. Firebird IV
    https://images.app.goo.gl/fUyXXaddNziZypfv7
     
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