Rebuilding a Dinoplex AEC103A | Page 11 | FerrariChat

Rebuilding a Dinoplex AEC103A

Discussion in '206/246' started by alhbln, Mar 5, 2010.

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  1. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,192
    small detail question. anybody find...
    - correct instruction plates for the large 101 boxes?last i checked the rivet holes did not match up.
    - correct rivet size and technique for getting the rivet cross hatch marks?
    - best way to restore metal housing? soda blasting?
    tia
     
  2. Fred Winterburn

    Fred Winterburn Karting

    Jan 27, 2015
    75
    Not meaning to bump Edward's question on how best to re-finish a 101 case, but yes I still do retrofits in a small way. I have one here waiting for me to start on once I get through a batch of 6V CDIs for some patient customers. With regard to gutting the case of the potted lump inside, please do not drill out any of the screws or the diode. I use those threaded holes for mounting a baseplate to hold the new circuit board. And note too that the connector must be salvaged without damage. Also don't lose any of the screws. I can't do cosmetics either so the case will look as it did when it was sent to me. Parker Hall has perfect reproduction labels. My capacity given everything else in life is probably 4 to 5 retrofits a year at this stage. That is also assuming that with the pandemic I can buy the parts I need. Fred [email protected]
     
  3. mar3kl

    mar3kl Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2011
    453
    Silicon Valley
    Full Name:
    Mark
    IIRC I had mine ice blasted and it turned out beautifully. I used one of Parker Hall’s labels, then Fred did an equally beautiful job on the retrofit.
     
  4. Jorgepiu

    Jorgepiu Rookie

    May 15, 2015
    4
    barcelona españa
    Full Name:
    Jorge Valbuena
    good afternoon I see that I am late because the post is a few years old. I made the bosch conversion an excelent alternative but connected the brown wire from the meter plug to pin 7 of the bosch module an still have no RPM ANY idea`s
     
  5. Tobi

    Tobi Karting

    Jun 24, 2011
    116
    Alto Palatinato
    I'm stripping a 103 at the moment and stuck when removing the potted block from the lower half of the housing. I did not drill the 4 mm hole for the thyristor since this is closed on my Dinoplex, i.e. there is the little block between the fins but it has no hole like as on my other 103s. It is a late 103 w/o serial number and the frame around the connector. I've heated up the block and cannot get it out of the housing. Do I have to drill the 4 mm hole anyway?
     
  6. Fred Winterburn

    Fred Winterburn Karting

    Jan 27, 2015
    75
    No, It really is the epoxy adhering to the rough casting that is making it hard to get out. Once you have the connector out safely you might need a little more heat. I use a propane torch and the get everything quite hot without melting the aluminum. You may also have to heat and chisel out the potting bit by bit. Once the transformer is pried out it goes a little easier. If you don't have a big padded vise, you can take it out on the lawn. The grass and soil won't hurt the case while chiselling out the innards. I absolutely hate gutting those cases. I wear heavy leather gloves so I don't get burnt. Fred

     
  7. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jan 14, 2011
    1,283
    Northeast, USA & Oz
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    Tobi,
    I pulled one apart today, didn’t drill the hole in the thyristor mount or heat it.
    Put the epoxy side in a large vise, cranked it tight and hit it out working each side with a dead blow hammer. Took a few minutes.
    The epoxy broke up and I could unscrew the thyristor and chisel out other residual epoxy afterwards. Wear safety glasses...
    Andrew
     
  8. Tobi

    Tobi Karting

    Jun 24, 2011
    116
    Alto Palatinato
    Thanks for your replies. I've managed to empty the housing today. My vise didn't grip it good enough. Hammer and chisel helped after heating it in the oven to 200 degrees Celsius. Unfortunately, I damaged the housing a little bit with the chisel where it was very thin. But it is on the bottom and will not be visible.
     
  9. Jorgepiu

    Jorgepiu Rookie

    May 15, 2015
    4
    barcelona españa
    Full Name:
    Jorge Valbuena
    hello good afternoon I see that I am late because the post is a few years old. I made the bosch conversion an excelent alternative but connected the brown wire from the meter plug to pin 7 of the bosch module an still have no RPM ANY idea`s
     
  10. Jorgepiu

    Jorgepiu Rookie

    May 15, 2015
    4
    barcelona españa
    Full Name:
    Jorge Valbuena
    need help me. I have bosch modul adapter, but I dont have RPM signal in the pin 7 please heeelp me
     
  11. daviekj

    daviekj Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 9, 2008
    462
    UK
    Jorgepiu,

    The only additional information I have that may help is in the photos below. Right gauge in photo is the Rev counter. These were taken during the 2010 conversion using Adrians recipe and detailed from post 47 in this thread. I don’t recall any issues with the Rev counter. The wire colours may help with a check against yours.

    Also I am pleased to update here that the system has behaved impeccably since first installation Oct 2010. Starting is immediate (original starter), cold and hot and running is smooth. So I do hope you can get your Rev counter issue sorted.

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    Kevin
     
    alhbln likes this.
  12. DinoLasse

    DinoLasse Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 26, 2009
    598
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Lars
    Replace the Bosch module. The output driving the tacho in that module is easily damaged.

    I had the same problem after a mechanic had worked on the car for an unrelated issue. No tacho indication and no output from the tacho pin on the module. I ordered a new Bosch module and replaced it. Worked fine after that.
     
  13. Jorgepiu

    Jorgepiu Rookie

    May 15, 2015
    4
    barcelona españa
    Full Name:
    Jorge Valbuena
    [QUOTE = "DinoLasse, publicación: 147279419, miembro: 80993"] Reemplace el módulo Bosch. La salida que impulsa el tacho en ese módulo se daña fácilmente.

    Tuve el mismo problema después de que un mecánico había trabajado en el automóvil por un problema no relacionado. Sin indicación de tacho y sin salida del pin de tacho en el módulo. Pedí un nuevo módulo Bosch y lo reemplacé. Funcionó bien después de eso. [/ QUOTE]
    thaks for the reply, today Iwill order a new one and tell my experience
     
  14. Tobi

    Tobi Karting

    Jun 24, 2011
    116
    Alto Palatinato
    I've installed the Winterburn-Dinoplex now and did a short test drive. I did no serious test, but the subjective impression was that it improved a little bit compared to the 101. It started even quicker and felt a bit easier to drive. I want to increase the gap of the spark plug electrode a little bit now. Fred's CDI is definitely a good choice if you have a defective 103.
     
  15. ttc46

    ttc46 Rookie

    Jan 15, 2015
    8
    France
    Hello,
    I've installed in my coupé DINO 2400, the Bosch conversion from Adrain with optical pickup and the Bosch coil.
    Yesterday, I try a test drive and after one hour, I had ignition problems, the engine doesn't run well anymore and then it cut off, the Bosch coil was very very hot.
    After few minutes, the engine start again for about 20 minutes and so the engine cut off 4-5 times in 100kms.
    And at the last cut-off, I replaced the coil with an NGK and at this time, the engine started again and run very well, so I could make the last 4kms from my home.
    So, it's clear that the problem comes from the coil which became too hot; with the others ignition that I had before, I never had this problem, so I don't think that my Bosch coil is out.
    I must say that I don't have a Bosch module 0227 100 137, but a similar from Huco (138002).
    Have you an idea why the coil is being so hot??
    Could it be that the problem come from the Huco module that isn't really similar as the Bosch, in the dwell control i.e?
    thank you for the help.
     
  16. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
    Consultant Owner

    Mar 4, 2008
    1,749
    Berlin, Germany
    Full Name:
    Adrian
    The Bosch 137 module features electronic current (dwell) management to properly run the low resistance high power Bosch coil. If you install a module, which does not manage and limit the current, the coil can quickly overheat due to the too high current and stop delivering a healthy spark. It sounds like the NGK coil you installed is a low power version with a higher input resistance, so it is not overheating with the current supplied by the Hüco electronics module.

    My recommendation would be to get the correct 0 227 100 137 module for running the high power Bosch coil, or at least a coil recommended for the Hüco 138002 coil to avoid overheating.
     
    Jamie H likes this.
  17. Jamie H

    Jamie H Formula 3
    Owner

    Aug 28, 2009
    2,425
    Puslinch,ON
    Full Name:
    Jamie
    +1 the dwell control built into that module is critical to coil operation and lifespan. It is one of the reasons that it works well in this application.
     
  18. ttc46

    ttc46 Rookie

    Jan 15, 2015
    8
    France
    Thank you for your answers

    The NGK coil I use is a Low resistance coil, like the Bosch, but I had just 4kms to do to come home; so the NGK didn't have time enough to became hot.
    All this ignition moduls are not equivalent and I know what I have to do, it's to buy a Bosch module
     
    alhbln likes this.
  19. ttc46

    ttc46 Rookie

    Jan 15, 2015
    8
    France
    Hello,

    I've ordered a Bosch Module which should come at the end of this week.
    1) Concerning the temperature of the coil, what is a good working coil temperature? 50°C - 70°C ?
    2) the Bosch coil as a primary resistance of 0,6 Ohm; If, after installing the Bosch module, the coil becomes always very hot and create ignition problems,
    I suppose that I can test a coil with a primary resistance of 1,5 - 1,8 ohm, but in this case, I will loss spark power at high RPM, due the primary resistance?
    Is it right?
     
  20. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
    Consultant Owner

    Mar 4, 2008
    1,749
    Berlin, Germany
    Full Name:
    Adrian
    1) Standalone the coil runs up to ~50ºC, in a 246 GT trunk up to around ~60C.
    2) Correct! You don't loose power though, but spark duration with a higher resistance coil. The lower the resistance, the faster the coil charges (dwell), which is important to get a full spark at high revs.
     
    Eltel246 likes this.
  21. ttc46

    ttc46 Rookie

    Jan 15, 2015
    8
    France
    Thank you Adrian, for the infos.
    I will let you know which result I have with the Bosch Module.
     
    alhbln likes this.
  22. ttc46

    ttc46 Rookie

    Jan 15, 2015
    8
    France
    Hi,

    First, I wish you a happy new year.

    Some news with my Ignition.
    I receive the Bosch module 0227 100 137 and I made some tests; the coil became hot, at a normal level.
    I made some other tests and I note that the Bosch module and the Huco module 138002 didn't work in the same way;
    When you turn the ignition, the Bosch module cuts the primary current after a few seconds, thing that doesn't do the HUCO module.
    So, it's better to buy an original Bosch module.;)
     
    alhbln likes this.
  23. Luis A.

    Luis A. Karting

    Jul 14, 2010
    97
    Milwaukee, WI
    Hi Adrian and ttc46; good to hear of this resolution and to learn of the difference with the Huco module.

    There is a very wide difference in price for these Bosch modules, over $100 in some cases. Are these modules subject to fakes such as some Bosch fuel pumps? Some are pictured as "Made in USA" and some "Made in Taiwan", any known differences in quality?
     
  24. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
    Consultant Owner

    Mar 4, 2008
    1,749
    Berlin, Germany
    Full Name:
    Adrian
    The original Bosch 137 modules have been produced in three different facilities to the best of my knowledge, 1. Germany, 2. Mexico, 3. China. The reason for this is that aftermarket products which are slowly being phased out based on sold units are produced in cheaper production facilities. I had no problems yet with any of the variants though. Current Bosch 137 modules made in Taiwan are ~€40-€60 in Germany as of today. It is never a bad thing to buy one or two as spares though.

    I am not aware of any fakes yet. If in doubt you could remove the cover plate with a knife tip and compare the PCB with the photo below.
    The IC on the top left side is a ST L482 Hall Effect Ignition Controller.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  25. Fred Winterburn

    Fred Winterburn Karting

    Jan 27, 2015
    75
    Folks, A quick note here to inform everyone that I will no longer be doing retrofits. Demand has been extremely low (haven't done one in two years) and I have other things to do. I'm still building the standard CDI in both 6V and 12V. The 6V is going through a redesign to make it even better but I won't have more of those built for at least 5 months. Also for nostalgia, I've made a few 12V units with NOS 1963 germanium transistors. Between this and some major work on my crumbling farmhouse I'm giving up the retrofits. Thanks to those of you that allowed me to do the work for you. All the best, Fred

     

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