3.2 Can't Hold idle sounds like a cylinder missing | Page 8 | FerrariChat

3.2 Can't Hold idle sounds like a cylinder missing

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by moysiuan, Apr 12, 2020.

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  1. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,827
    Isle of man- uk
    Its got to be the wuffel plugs coming loose
     
  2. jkstevens2

    jkstevens2 Formula Junior

    Aug 25, 2015
    278
    Winter Park, FL
    Full Name:
    JK Stevens
    can you snake a plumbers camera down into the bowels of the flywheel to see the sensor head location. Maybe its time to pull the engine and remove the flywheel. It would enable you to install the rear grappling hook and bullet shield options that our super heros and secret spy's enjoy
     
  3. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2005
    3,626
    Canada
    Got the boroscope, useful little device. Spotted the broken sensor piece behind the flywheel, almost got it out with a maget huided by the boroscopem but since it is the bottom half of the sensor it needed to be oriented correctly to pull it out the hole. No way that was going to happen, gave up after hours of trying. More fun than the claw game at the town fair, but no prize to be had.

    So I just decided (and confirming I could in fact acquire a good used flywheel if need be, as new are NLA, go for it, I turned over the starter, heard a bang, the sensor destructed into a million little pieces, I guess the sensor magnet is pretty friable metal. No sign of anything damaged, juts lots of magnetic shards inside the bellhousing. Time will tell if that has any effect, but I think I can confirm if anyone else faces this, the soft sensor if it falls in is not likely going to damage things. Bellhousing off to remove would be the way to go, but unless it is time for a clutch job, or rear main crank seal, then I am a sample size of one who took a risk and seem ok.
     
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  4. jkstevens2

    jkstevens2 Formula Junior

    Aug 25, 2015
    278
    Winter Park, FL
    Full Name:
    JK Stevens
    I am waiting for the next chapter to be released. Can you please share how this story resolves itself? :rolleyes:
     
  5. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2005
    3,626
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    #180 moysiuan, Jun 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
    Having completed the saga of the crank sensor, I have decided to rebuild the fuel distributor. Ordered a kit, read up about the process.

    Actually did it today, including a new EHA module. The rebuild went well, too well in that it was clean as could be inside, and no sign of O ring damage, and the key diaphragm had no split or sign of leaks. The O ring where the distributor inserts into the body of the plennum seemed at bit loose, maybe there was a vacuum type leak there, but I doubt it. Will post pictures of this rebuild when I get a chance. Interesting project, and of course I have gotten to know the injection system in quite some depth.

    I have not reinstalled the unit, the copper crush washers on order to reinstall the fuel lines were held up in shipping. Hopefully I did no harm, and it is possible the unit was the problem, but nothing obvious suggesting that was the case. Assuming I did not botch up the rebuild, and the cars runs and there are no leaks, if it does not solve for the problem at the least I will have ruled that unit out.

    I still have the fuel ECU on order, delayed for various reasons, as well as a couple of relays, so that remains a possibility. Did a compression check to makes sure I did not have some head gasket or valve problem, and that all checked out fine.

    I have not as yet done the fuel pump, but it just arrived so that would be next up.

    I have gone through all the wiring, cleaned every connection, reseated various grounds, and basically trying to rule out these things. But for now, I have not actually found anything that allows me to actually diagnose what the problem might be.

    So, the bottom line, one by one I am ruling things out, and replacing many items proactively for the long term. Or more bluntly, throwing parts at the problem, hoping to get lucky.

    Will report back on the fuel distributor once I get that back on and test start things up.
     
  6. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,827
    Isle of man- uk
    Nice to see someone having a go at the fuel distributor repair kit- many people on here run away from this simple job
     
  7. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2005
    3,626
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    Ok, so the fuel distributor rebuild project looks successful. The car runs much better, although I expect some test driving will be required before I declare victory. I have spent some time setting the CO level with my Gunson meter to the pre cat 0.7 % mark, and replaced the carbonized O2 sensor which was not reading correctly, the new one does. Also put in some DE8EIX Iridium NGK,s on the presumption that I will not be fouling more plugs. Will report back if any further problems, but it appears the fuel distributor must have had some sort of pin hole leak in the diaphragm, or an oring that was not sealing causing internal leaks in the distributor. I also replaced the EHA module unit, so it is possible that was the problem, but the original was giving correct voltage occilation reading so I suspect that was not the problem.

    Looks like Mike32 and jkstevens2 called it correctly early on in the thread.

    The distributor rebuild was pretty straightforward, there was a good you tube video that I followed along with, rebuild kits readily available on ebay, was meticulous and it took one day to remove, rebuild and replace, so not as labour intensive as I expected, and for once there is a part on this car that is easy to access being unobstructed and on the top of the engine. Just need to be careful to not damage any sensitive bits. My unit was so clean, if one was dirty and gummed up that would probably be best to send to a rebuilder, who can clean and recalibrate the unit. But if your car is relatively low milage, and not left to sit for ages, the odds are it is clean inside. I will post separately on this, as there are a couple of tips I picked up that in hindsight are esstential to a success on the project.
     
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  8. Jeka

    Jeka Formula 3
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    Nov 20, 2010
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    Johan
    That's good news, well done!
     
  9. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,827
    Isle of man- uk
    Nice to see you got there, i have had people remark that the distributor needs to go to a certain man other wise it will leak and all is doom. The one i saw done was done on a machine shop bench on old news paper. Worked first time.
     
  10. jkstevens2

    jkstevens2 Formula Junior

    Aug 25, 2015
    278
    Winter Park, FL
    Full Name:
    JK Stevens
    Well, thank you sincerely for the shout out! It gives me hope with mine....... as it all comes back together.........I wish I would have just demanded the fuel distributor be rebuilt first before the whole motor was torn down. I am at a solid 21 months waiting on a repair rebuild.
     
  11. DAC

    DAC Karting

    Apr 20, 2008
    249
    Regina Canada
    First Moysiuan, THANK YOU!!

    To everyone who contributed to this post. I am having the exact same problems and have been struggling to sort it out. Crappy cold start, runs supper rich, (burns the eyes) etc.

    I have done almost everything you guys have.

    New plugs

    New wires

    New extenders

    New rotors

    New caps

    New temperature sensors

    New injectors

    New oxygen sensor

    Checked the cold start injector.

    Checked the Axu Air valve.

    Replaced the LMM potentiometer.

    Downloaded the KE3 manual, read it 20 times, performed all the test etc. etc.

    Countless hours spent testing.

    I was about to call a shipper and have the car shipped to a Ferrari dealer. As I don’t have a local expert either. (I live in Saskatchewan, Canada)

    So glad you were able to get yours fixed with what seems a relatively simple fix.

    I wish I was closer to Mobile Alabama I have friends there) and I would send it to Larry.

    I will be ordering a rebuild kit today!!

    I will post the results once it is done. Whish me luck!!!
     
  12. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2005
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    Just be very careful with the things that screw into the soft aluminum body (albeit some early fuel distributors are steel). There are inch pound torque specs in the service manual.
     
  13. DAC

    DAC Karting

    Apr 20, 2008
    249
    Regina Canada
    ok, thanks for the heads up.
    do you have a part number for the EHA modal? having trouble finding the part number.
     
  14. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Unless you have leaking at the EHA unit, there are two o rings that seal it to the fuel distributor but it can also leak internally when it fails, it is probably functioning ok.
     
  16. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,827
    Isle of man- uk
    Look on the side of the fuel distributor for the bosch id and serial number, so you get the correct repair kit.
    Does your car misfire and have a strong fuel smell when running, possable fuel dilution in the sump oil if it is really buggered ?
     
  17. DAC

    DAC Karting

    Apr 20, 2008
    249
    Regina Canada
    Hi Mike, yes it will back fire when I turn it off. Haven’t noticed any change in the oil level but I haven’t driven it much at all.

    After reading some more I decided to send it to CIS Flowtech in Fairhope Alabama. Going to send everything and let an expert sort it out.

    I did replace the LMM on the side so I want them to check and set everything.
     
  18. DAC

    DAC Karting

    Apr 20, 2008
    249
    Regina Canada
    Very strong fuel smell, and yes does misfire.
     
  19. M. Brandon Motorcars

    Sponsor

    Sep 4, 2007
    1,759
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Michael Foertsch
    @DAC, the one thing that I didn't see in your list was checking the frequency valve protection relay fuse and/or relay itself. That could cause your symptoms.
     
  20. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2005
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    I think the fellow has the unusual KE3 system with the EHA set up like mine, ie. no frequency valve. More similar to the Testarossa system.
     
  21. DAC

    DAC Karting

    Apr 20, 2008
    249
    Regina Canada
    You are correct, no frequency value.
     
  22. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    25,035
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    Although the KE3-Jet and KE-Jet systems have an EHA rather than a frequency valve to control the lower chamber pressure inside the Fuel Distributor, it's still important that the Protection Relay system is working on both. A bad Protection Relay system on a KE3-Jet system won't cause much of a bad warm-running situation, like it does on a KE-Jet system (so probably not your problem), but best to make sure that your Protection Relay system is working before tweaking up your KE3-Jet system when you get your rebuilt components back from Larry.
     
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  23. DAC

    DAC Karting

    Apr 20, 2008
    249
    Regina Canada
    ok, thanks.
    I would like to replace all the injectors and the bushings that hold them. Any idea of a source for the injector bushings? I found them for Euro Spares but they are very expensive for what they are.
     
  24. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,827
    Isle of man- uk
    Its not the injectors at fault, the misfire and strong fuel smell is caused by the fuel distributor. You are probably getting huge overfuel on some units, due to cracked seals in the distributor. It can drown the plugs in a bad case. So much fuel is going in and not burning, it goes past the rings into the sump oil- oil level increases and oil is very thin.
     

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