360 - Cam Belt Adventure | FerrariChat

360 Cam Belt Adventure

Discussion in '360/430' started by Kevin Rev'n, Jul 18, 2020.

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  1. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2009
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    Well I have been kicking around this place for a few years and have done quite a bit to my car but with the quarantine and a belt service due I decided the time was right to go for a DIY. Doing all my own service has always been a fantasy of mine and I'm not getting any younger. The video by SpiderScott was instrumental as I didn't see anything in there that made me uncomfortable. I think I owe Scott a couple beers. If you havent seen his video it is here.



    I've been into my car a few times but with covers removed this was a great opportunity for a memorable pic.

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    Also getting to this point I can understand why Scott did not show the removal of the right side belt cover! That was not easy to wrestle out of there. I was not going to make a post about this until I was done but I have already needed some help and have also learned a couple things to share with the group so I figured I better start the thread.

    cont...
     
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  2. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    First real snag I hit was removing the main drive shaft nut on the pulley. I tried a few shade tree methods to get that free but took the sage advice to "Buy the special tool" and it was the right thing to do. I have seen a few pictures of this thing installed and always with 2 attach bolts even though it comes with 4. It seems the slot pattern is mis-located by about .01 inch so its not possible to get 4 attach bolts on but they are not needed.

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    cont...
     
  3. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Next complication I had was finding the right 36mm socket to remove that nut. My car is up on blocks but when I learned that at least one dealer uses a 5ft breaker bar on it from underneath I was a little worried. I needed all the length I could get to break it free and the secret sauce for me was a 12pt 36mm socket so I could add extensions to my breaker bar until I got it loose. The 12 point socket I got was a craftsman one from Lowes for 15 bucks. It allowed me to accurately position the bar in the corner of the cabin for extra length so I could break the nut free. No problem after I got it set up right!

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    cont...
     
  4. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    So with the pulley removed the next thing is to reinstall the nut with a spacer so you can turn the engine and locate TDC. I picked up the Hill Engineering TDC kit. More on this nice piece of kit later but I am always looking for things to make with my lathe so away I went to fab that spacer. I had some steel pipe handy with 1.5 inch diameter hole in it so I cleaned it up and parted it to 1.55 inches long.

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    Here it is installed and ready for action. Gonna take a break now and get that TDC tool installed. With the #1 and #5 spark plugs out the engine turns easy enough.

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    I almost forgot to mention the fun of getting the spark plug out of the hole! I recall reading about using some rubber gas line to retrieve the plug once you loosened it but of course I had none. I used a high quality closed cell foam and put a hole in it to secure the tip of the plug for extraction.

    If I do this job again I will copy how the dealer does it and remove the engine air intake box and metal engine bay cross brace so I can have maximum room to work. I'm also replacing the plugs. Heck I still may have to but I am going to attempt to leave those in place.
     
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  5. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Love that picture. Looks like a surgeon's tools laid out in the operating room for the big procedure.
     
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  6. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Kevin, are those engine mounts reinforced? Looks like a welded plate there.. ?
     
  7. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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  8. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Spark Plugs... I am not sure if these have ever been replaced. They are the PMR8B's which is the newer ones spec'd for the car. Car has 16K miles on it. I am glad I am replacing them. If original they have been in there a good long while but only half way to the replacement schedule of 30K IIRC.

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  9. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Interesting. Thank You for the pic!
     
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  10. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    yes, the hill tool is a little misaligned and I posted this about it and nobody answers.


     
  11. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If they (Hill Engineering) opened up the width of the 4 slots by a little it would work as intended. Maybe they don't know?
     
  12. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    I think I emailed Hill about it and they were surprised, I didn't follow up because I'll just use a dremel to enlarge the hole a little bit myself

     
  13. Kevin R

    Kevin R Rookie
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  14. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    i was also thinking, that, the holes' position themselves are changed throught 360's production.



     
  15. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    i've been convinced that if you make 3 marks on each belt , referenced to the pulley, the timing will not be changed.
    so why bother with the re-degreeing?
    somebody talks me into the re-degreeing route please.
     
  16. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    My plan was to just check it for reference with the silly putty method. The car runs perfect so I don't want to change a thing!
     
  17. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well that's good to know. It is really close. I "could" remove some of the material but two seems to work. I think I saw in Scotts video above the same thing and maybe Aldous Voice too? When did you purchase yours?
     
  18. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    nobody can talk you into degreeing the cam if you are not gonna do it. On a 360, at least one of the two cams can be read by the computer and it will tell you whether the cam is in spec or not.

    Kevin, I did not have any problem with my Hill Engineering tool either. All four little bolts screw right in.
     
  19. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I have some unraveling of a harness tape that you can see here in the picture. I would like to glue it back in place. Does anyone have a recommendation for an adhesive that can be effective in this area?

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  20. fedcoin

    fedcoin Formula Junior
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  21. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks, that looks good! I hope I can find it, anything flammable can be a challenge to get here.
     
  22. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Progress...I got set up to check the timing marks. I installed the Hill TDC tool in cyl #1 and moved the main crank until the reading maxed out...Couldn't see the timing marks. I was thinking oh man this is what the guys are talking about it really is hard to see. I have a bore scope of course but it's older and awkward. Then I thought hey, maybe I am the top of exhaust stroke? That was it! There is no mistaking the compression stroke if you only have a couple spark plugs out. I took out #1 & #8 to help the engine turn...the whoosh on compression is very audible! These are the kind of timing alignments we want to see. This is just bank 1-4 but I'll check 5-8 soon enough.

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    Interesting, to me anyway, that the factory marks on the main are in alignment whether you are at TDC of compression or exhaust stroke

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    Crappy pics I know but my outdated scope shoots at 640 x 480 resolution! lol

    The awesome Mitutoyo dial indicator doing it's thing that comes with the Hill Kit...

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  23. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    Awesome! Thanks for the share. This is in my future.
     
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  24. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I think a car lift is in my future! When the car is up to allow under access it's tough to work to get to the spark plugs, etc.

    I should have removed the air intake and engine cross brace, plugs while the car was down and then jacked up the car to get to the belt procedure. Next time will be more straight forward. The car is really set up pretty nice for service. Mind you mine is a three pedal but if you planned on doing coolant flush at the same time it would even make the process easier because the coolant hoses are an obstacle!
     
  25. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Kevin glad things are moving along for you. Nice to see the timing marks lining up so well.

    Not to be contentious at all, and not pretending to be a pro. Just trying to save others that may be reading your thread and in the future following in your footsteps.

    I’ve done a couple of belt services, and degreed my cams. Removed coils, plugs and even valve covers with the cross members in so why would you remove them?

    Also, unless you are going to replace the intake manifold or air plenum cover gaskets why remove them?

    Most decent spark plug sockets have a built in rubber boot which grabs the ceramic insulator and you shouldn’t loose the plug.

    I have never tested it but if the top of the plug is ferromagnetic a common magnet on a flexible shaft may easily retrieve it.

    -ray


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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