True... But to be sure the hard parts in both the earlier F1 versions appear to be as robust as those in the DCT. The difference as I understand it is that the DCT has all the electrics located inside the trans making repairs much more costly.
Rev limiters are there for a reason, true. But I really try to press myself as a competent driver. I put my car on a dyno to discover where the proper shift points are (as the engine is not always still making power up to the redline) and make it a point to be aware of my machine and not simply rely on a rev cut out to compensate for my lackadaisical driving skills. I just shake my head every time I hear a sport bike rider only shift when the rev limiter starts to interrupt the ignition in every gear.
Yes, sportbikes are notorious for 'falling off' close to redline. Most all of them make more horsepower 1-2k below redline. I could always feel that in the seat of my pants on sportbikes and shifted accordingly.
Real competent drivers don't need all these electronic nannies to tell them when to rev their engines. Anyone with a minimum of mechanical feeling knows and understands the need to take it easy until all the fluids are fully warmed up. The fact that engine-related issues on Lambos and Audis went down after the electronic "aids" were installed tells you more about the quality of the drivers of these cars than anything else...
Which 911 are you comparing to the 458? A twin turbo (I’m assuming ) with what kind of transmission (PDK)? A friend of mine gets a new one every two years by leasing. He doesn’t track the car, but he drives it everyday and finds them to be reliable. Not sure about the design of the PDK transmission. The Getrag has I believe two ECUs ( one smaller one dedicated to the EDiff. There are some sensors and wiring inside. Of course with the F-1 transmission there were sensors inside too. I’ve only owned one 911 (original owner) and had a bunch of problems including bad alternator, bad ECU, bad and bad paint. Also mine wasn’t a turbo and I wasn’t impressed with the performance either. The brakes are an expensive issue if you track the 458 since they are Carbon Ceramic. The pads aren’t that expensive to replace but the rotors are. What about with the Porsche? Many swap those out and use steel rotors and pads for track days.
KGC, You may be right, although personally I have a different experience. Of course I won’t judge the whole matter based on my own personal experience so, again, you may be right. But I had a 355 F1 and that thing, apart from being slow (very good for its time truth be told), was a prima donna: very sensitive, always in need of care and attention (gearbox-wise that is). Actuator, clutch disc, oil, you name it, I paid for it one time or another. Car spent more time getting TLC than on the road. The modern DCTs from 2008 onwards, are much more sturdy and reliable. Don’t know if it’s due to improved hardware, software or both, but I think an interesting analogy is that the F1 I had in the 355 was an early 20th century phone, and the DCT is an iPhone. In terms of repairing costs, I’m inclined to agree with you: the F1 seems cheaper to repair, but no match in terms of performance and reliability to a modern DCT. Also, Getrag and Ferrari have been finding ways to offer cheaper DCT repairs, and so have independent specialists. It’s now cheaper today to fix a DCT issue than it was 8 or 10 years ago. Kind regards, Nuno.
I very much agree. The F1 has come a long way (and of course the DCT even further). When I was shopping for a 360 I was quite aware that I wanted the latest iteration of the TCU for the 360 (without the necessary re-flash upgrade). I heard many folks complain that the even the early TCU for the 1999 360 gave a very slushy shift. I have to say my '03 360 F1 gives me no reason to complain. Shifts are hard under throttle but by controlling the throttle I can get it to shift quite smooth at the lower RPM ranges. I can only imagine the F1 in your 355 was less than satisfying since it was fairly new tech. Great to hear that Getrag is working with Ferrari to get repairs-- when necessary-- down to a reasonable cost for the DCT units. It is of course the future and by all accounts (and other manufacturers as well) a much improved trans and a very appreciated advancement. I still want to believe there is a 458 in my future. I can't say I like the tech and screens but the looks of the 458 are simply a knockout for me.
Hi guys, I’m looking for some advice on this differential kit (458) which Ferrari sells, would anyone know what the kit consists off?.. the image shown isn’t very clear, as I understand the kit should consist of the crown and pinion. Can anyone confirm if that is the case. thanks
One of the best Ferrari mechanics n the world, and esp with respect with the EDiff and Getrag DCT works at Ferrari Los Angeles. I would suggest you contact his service center by phone or email and convey your concerns. A Ferrari Cerified Master Mechanic should conduct your work. (if you need further details please PM )
Ferrari does not sell a differential kit for the Getrag DTC gearbox. The only kit that is related to the differential is the E-diff pressure sensor kit. The early transmissions have a 40 bar pressure sensor which is prone to failure. Getrag updated the E-diff sensor to a 60 bar sensor. No hard parts (gears, shafts, synchros, shift forks, etc.) are available from Getrag, Ferrari, Mercedes Benz or Ford (all of which use the Getrag 7DCL750 gearbox). The only parts that you can purchase are sensors (temperature, speed, pressure), complete CCP or SAP kits or seal/complete housing kits along with fasteners/seals/o-rings. The crown gear is welded to the differential carrier, neither of which you can purchase. If you need a new crown and pinion gear-set, then it is time for a new gearbox. Regards, Brian Brown San Francisco Motorsports
Afternoon All, Here's a thread just started w/ my woes. LMK what you think and wish me luck! https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/458-tranny-issue.628502/#post-147433667 Image Unavailable, Please Login
Say you have a tranny failure. Are they repairing these with better parts than originally installed in the cars ? Or, are these repaired transmissions still subject to the same failures down the road?
I'm having my trusted source for years at dealership handle, so all from Ferrari / not aftermarket. I'd say that it's chaulked up to bad luck w/ a faulty part, when replaced, should hopefully last.
I really hope it lasts ! At 20k The point I was trying to make is the OEM parts obviously have a problem that I’m wondering have been corrected. Knowing Ferrari, I’m betting not. Thus the quandary of what makes us think the tranny will be any better than before after spending 20k that we shouldn’t have to in the 1st place ! If you just replace with the same parts again, it’s no better than before and this isn’t a isolated incident at this point.
I hear ya, but $20k is for an entire "new" used box, not a partial rebuild. Thankfully, was easily resolved! As of last night, she was missing odd gears, per shops aggressive test drive in auto and the light was thrown. Tech performed a bunch of cycles / tests, which failed the first time (which he said was kind of normal) but eventually all tests passed. He then drove it aggressively for 15 miles w/ no lights and all gears A-OK! Which means all the pressures applied by the cycles, etc. released a clogged solenoid or valve, etc. in the box. He's seen this happen before. SO ITS GREAT FN NEWS!!!! To be pro-active we are changing the hydraulic fluid in the box, that was from the factory. He said it could have been compromised over 6yrs time. In the most basic of terms, I can use my mountain bike trans as a comparison. The finger spped shifters I have on my bike after 20 yrs, stopped responding. When depressed, nothing happened, no clicks, resistance, etc. I opened the case and bombed it w/ WD-40. Sure enough, the WD-40 freed up a stuck / gunked up spring and she shifts like new! PS, I have a 20yr old mountain bike, cause it was a 30th B'day present from the Wife! lol
Gotta say, just hope this issue doesn't rear its ugly head again or maybe be even worse that it appears. All this seems way to "easy", in a life where everything is so difficult. I am contemplating taking an extended for a year, just in-case. I might sound pessimistic, but after 50 years on this planet (born and raised in NYC), I've seen and learned a lot...
I pulled onto SH 82 and started to accelerate to 55 mph and the car shifted into NEUTRAL. I pulled the upshift paddle and the was in 7th gear. The RED transmission logo was on. Downshifted into 2nd and turned right into a neighborhood. Tried to shift into reverse but nothing happened. So l found driveway with an upslope. Pulled up. Stopped. Still no reverse. Put into neutral and rolled down and pointed the car so l could get home. Pulled into my garage frontwards and turned off the car. Called the dealership. They said to start the car again. When the car started the transmission light was yellow. When l pushed reverse the R came on but was told not to move the car. They came to pick up the car the next day and he put it on the covered trailer. I don’t know whether the transmission light was on at that point. Today the dealer called and said the problem must have been a software glitch. They could not get the car to fail and did they want them to redeliver the car to me Thursday. I told them to keep trying to get a failure. My concern is that this will happen again. Apparently l was able to get home in LIMP MODE. l drive on remote twisty mountain roads with no cell service. The thought of getting stranded is not a pleasant one. Perhaps it is time to sell my beloved 458. Would be interested in any thoughts.
Phil, Certainly not a good feeling to have a problem like that, whereby you lose confidence in the car because of a gremlin-type problem. I completely understand something like this would be in the back of your mind when out on the open and barren road. See how it plays out with the service center. Lots of 458 owners are putting miles in their cars, and the fleet is slowly aging. Perhaps we here at Fchat will be able to get an accurate accounting if real problems do exist, or they are simply one offs. In your case, one can hope it was just a glitch. For years I had the much-maligned Porsche 996, and the reports of IMS failures were horrific, so much so that I finally had mine replaced at 60,000 miles. The thing was in perfect shape - sometimes I think bad news tends to travel further and wider than good. William
sorry to hear about your issue. Let us know what the mechanics discover. As far as selling your car, the reality is that one would probably have to fix the problem. Otherwise I doubt you would get any takers other than those who would simply subtract the cost of a brand new DCT plus installation costs. The 458 DCTs have been extremely reliable. I think Ferrari produced 18,000 458s or more Good luck!
The dealership can’t find a problem now and wants to give the car back to me. My fear is that this will happen again and l may stranded.
