02 575m asr

location of asr cutoff electronics . looks like a relay ?
[email protected] much thanks

 

I'm wondering if there is there one on the 575M? I note that the 456M and 550 part number for the asr cutoff electronics (aka exclusion module) are not applicable to the 575M. The cutout toggle switch may interact directly with the engine ECUs and ABS/ASR ECU. The "cutoff electronics" may reside in the computers on the 575.

Not that it may help you, but I've ordered a used 550 ASR exclusion module from Eurospares and will run some tests on it to see what it actually does. i.e. is it simply a latching mechanism.

 

Qavion
did you have a chance to inspect the ASR exclusion module?
There is a electronic box attach to the ABS module. Does it have something to do with the ASR?
Thanks Dino

 

Unfortunately, the exclusion module I ordered from Eurospares is a part of a bigger order, and might take a month or so to arrive from the UK. I don't own any of the V12's... I just ordered one to play with it (retirement/COVID boredom). No one on the forum seems to have a proper manual for the 575, so I don't know for sure if it has an exclusion module or not. All I can say is that I haven't found one in the parts manuals. I'm pretty sure, however, that the part attached to the ABS module will be the ASR/ABS main computer.

P/N 191996 or 191997

https://www.ricambiamerica.com/car-diagrams/ferrari/v12/gt-group-2-seat/575m/brake-system-not-for-rhd/191997-centralina-idr-elettron-abs.html

 

Thanks, I’ll try to find out. I’ll take it off and find out. Dino

 

Unfortunately, we don't have a pinout for the computer, so you wouldn't be able to check the ABS computer for a direct input from the ASR cutout switch. The F360 has a similar looking computer, so I might be able to find the right pins to check using the 360 wiring hookup charts. This may take a few hours. Standby...

 

Unfortunately, the F360 wiring diagrams were of no help. The only output from the F360 ASR Cutoff switch (i.e. pin 4) goes to the instrument binnacle display wiring on a yellow/blue wire and from then on, the wiring is unknown.

Theory: Either
1) the ASR exclusion electronics on the F360 is incorporated into the instrument display computer and this sends a signal to the ABS system (perhaps even on a CAN bus)... or...
2) the ASR exclusion electronics module is located behind the instrument binnacle (The F360 Workshop Manual does mention a "device" which controls ASR cutout, but I couldn't find one in the 575 or 360 parts manual)

Perhaps the F360 experts can chime in here? Is there a separate module for ASR exclusion and where is it?

Unfortunately, there are simply too many pins on the ABS computer plug to work backwards to the instrument binnacle.

Here is part of the wiring hookup on the F360

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For what it is worth, the wire colours on these F cars are often similar for particular systems. e.g. yellow/red is often background lighting.

You might want to try finding continuity between the yellow-blue wire on your F550 ASR switch (if the same colour), with power off the car, and then probe all the sockets on the ABS computer plug. If there is a direct link between the switch (pin 4), then it's likely the cutout electronics are in the ABS computer itself (so no exclusion module like the 550/456).

Do you have a chart for Italian colour codes?
A = light blue
B = white
C = orange
G = yellow
H = grey
L= blue
M = brown
R = red
V = green
Z = violet

 

I did look at the pins on the ABS computer on the F360 and here is a rough pinout guide (it may be the same as the 575M)

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Most of the pins seem to be related to sensors, grounds and power.

Pin 11 (orange/blue wire) looks like it goes to the rear of the car, so probably not related to the ASR Cutoff switch
Pin 12 (light blue/white wire) goes to the instrument binnacle
Pin 14 (red wire) goes to something called a "Car Setting Control Unit" (F360 experts?)
Pin 15 (orange/blue wire) looks like it also goes to the rear of the car.
Pins 29 & 30 are for the CAN Bus.

If the 575M is similar, I would focus on pins 12 and 14 when doing wiring checks between pin 4 of the ASR Cutout switch and the ABS computer.

 

Just remembered that this a term used for the Suspension ECU. This only leaves pin 12 and the CAN Bus as possible sources for the ASR switch input or a mystery ASR exclusion module input.

 

Unfortunately, the purchase of a second hand 550 ASR Exclusion/Cutoff Module turned out to be rather pointless. I couldn't make any sense of resistance checks on the pins. The case had a small crack in it when it arrived. I didn't think it resellable, so I opened up the case. The internal circuits are far more complicated than I imagined.

There is a transistor, a diode, an integrated circuit/chip, a non-latching relay, an electrolytic capacitor, a regular capacitor, resistors and a dozen surface mounted miniature components, all encased in a thick jelly/jello-like potting compound. Here's a pic showing the internals with most of the potting compound removed:

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Here is the underside showing some surface mounted components:

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Panasonic relay DS2Y-S-DC12V
Datasheet http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2003971.pdf?

The relay may be latched by the IC

Motorola IC (Dual type D flip flop).
https://au.mouser.com/datasheet/2/308/mc14013b-d-1192922.pdf

I'm still trying to match the pins on the actual unit to the ones in the diagram. Needless to say, the internals in the wiring diagram do not match the unit itself.

If it breaks, it's probably repairable using off the shelf components, but I doubt it would be worth the hassle. It took me an hour just to get the potting compound off.

I don't think I will make much progress unless I can figure out which is the main power pin and which is the earth. I don't have a 550, so I can't even match the pins to wire colours.

I still think it's function is to provide a latched circuit which maintains cutoff until the ignition is turned off. I just need to figure out what signal is actually being sent to the ASR/ABS unit. An earth? A fixed resistance? A voltage?

 

Follow-up...

As mentioned on the FChat 456/550/575 sub-forum, I now believe the 456M/550 ASR Exclusion module presents a fixed resistance to the ABS ECU when the ASR Cutoff Switch is pressed for (circa) 1 second.

i.e. ABS ECU pin 44 >>> Exclusion module pin 5 >>> 562 ohm resistor >>>> Exclusion module pin 2 >>> chassis earth.

I just need someone brave enough to prove it