430 Still not fixed the SLOW DOWN issue

Hi guys.
I own a 07' F430 Coupe since 2 months.
As this is my first Ferrari, at first i was driving it just 5-10miles a day for about 20-30minutes. All was fine then. Suddenly started to drive it more and .. it happens. The bad old "SLOW DOWN".

It happens when the car is hot (driven at least 30-40 minutes). The shifting is getting rougher no matter if shifting up or down. Every 4-5 minutes after the first issue it repeats continuously until i stop the car, leave it to cool down for 5-6 hours then its fine for another 30-40 mins then it starts again. I tried and did a long run (400 miles+) at 6th gear on a highway - never experienced the slow down until i stopped to a gas station - it could run forever no issues until i start stopping and shifting down. When the warning is shown - i can continue to accelerate or drive at the same gear, but if i shift down to 1 it goes to N and cant shift - need to wait 40 seconds or to turn off the car completely and start it again - then i can go into 1st gear until the next Warning.

What i did so far:
There was a stored error at the F1 Accumulator - replaced it.
Leaked with a tool the F1 system, checked pressure - all is fine. No more errors at all.

Even after these issues the car doesn't store ANY error codes. The pump was advised to be the upgraded one - not the problematic ones from 360.

Im attaching the photo of the issue as im not sure if that should count as RED or AMBER slow down...
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After this i sometimes get another warning:

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And sometimes it shows F1 Gearbox icon in red.

 

That looks like the same mannetino failure warning that was on another thread recently. I think upon scanning there were network errors. (Uxxxx error codes).

As usual, we need to be able to see the fault codes to be able to help any further. Even if the fault isn’t active now, it will be stored.


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Slow Down light is associated with the cats overheating. This sounds like that is actually happening and the heat loading is causing issues with your F1. Have you checked the temp of the cats with an optical thermometer when the problem happens? How about the fuel trim? I have a few guesses but start with some specifics about the engine.

 

No errors at all - all is clear when reading them...

The cats were cleaned and re-installed - in fact didnt checked the temp when this is happening, but why should it make the car shifting to N also the rough shifting? The heat from the catalytic converters to be messing with the F1? Doesnt seem adequate...

 

Let's see, you put the transaxle between two 800 - 900 degree heaters, what could possibly go wrong with that? Then, make the engine run way too rich so they are actually over 1000 degrees, hence the slow down light. For comparison aluminum melts at about 1700. Running at speed with a lot of air flow and it works ok. Stop with no air flow to cool and suddenly problems. Nah, can't be related.

So how is it you "cleaned" the cats? Cats are a metallic matrix with catalyst metals plated onto them. How exactly did you clean them? That statement alone makes me think I am right.

 

Me myself haven't done anything. In my country there is no Official Ferrari dealer - its been serviced by a guy who is doing Ferrari's. He told me the catalytic converters were "cleaned" In fact the car was without them when i bought it, however it was TOO LOUD - i cant hardly stand it - it was with plain pipes instead of cats. As i mentioned above, at the very beginning i was driving it for a short time so i cannot say for sure if with the pipes it would be ok.

However, driving this for 400 miles should have brought way more heat to the F1 - but it was not giving errors, neither slow down.
By removing the cats i will reduce the heat in the engine compartment?

 

If an error code came up, it will be stored. Remember, there are lots of ECUs; if you can’t find the stored code, then you’re not looking into the correct ECU.

The mannetino fault is associated with suspension and stability control, as well as engine, steering and gearbox. You need to interrogate all of them.

The slow down lights on older models are specifically related to exhaust temperature, though I’m not sure if they may be used for other things on the 430? I could be wrong. In any case, the other warning symbol isn’t related to exhaust temperature.

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You need a good knowledgeable f Car mechanic.

 

Above posts are incorrect. Red slow down light is transmission related. This is what you have. Yellow slow down light is cat temp related, which is usually a faulty thermocouple sensor on the left or right bank.

 

no error on which module? u need to look at: both ignition ecu, TCU and e-diff module.

 

The manual says the opposite - red is for temperature, amber is for transmission. However i cannot 100% say if the photo is RED or AMBER as there are both colors there - if someone else has seen different warning light let confirm this is the red or amber light.

Checked on ALL available ECUs - clean like new - not even a stored ones.

 

Driving 400 miles in top gear will give you less heat, the engine is running less load- also you have a good airflow over the cats. If you look at the floor under the engine you will see it is sealed apart from 2 cutouts so the airflow is limited.
My 08 does not have the temp sensors fitted as they stopped fitting them when mine was built

 

You’re completely right. It was late. That picture was throwing me off and got them switched up. Thanks for correcting me

 

Curious, what country are you located in?

 

Here's what you need to do:
1- Purchase a temperture gun - reads temp by pointing it at Cat
2- Drive car until light comes on - immediately stop, open back lid & measure temp on both Cats (you might find them glowing red)
3- If the temp is high (above 800 F) you have a "real" heat problem, if not then you likely have a failing module that measures the cat temp (this is a frequent issue)
4- If you have a real heat problem it's likely unspent fuel getting into the cat and burning in it. This could be caused by a LOT of different things - you will need a computer that can measure fuel trim and O2 wide band. If the prior owner removed cats they could have also "tuned" ECU, that could be part of your problem depending on if it was done correctly

Good luck

 

Im in Bulgaria, Eastern Europe. Closest dealer is Turkey, Greece or Romania but as of the pandemic situation its a pain in the ass to travel now...

I was about to do exactly this. I've already checked the cats at moderate warming the engine and both cats are almost the same temperature: 490C which is approx 900F. As of what you are saying, seems they are really hot..

Guys here dont have SD3 tools - they use alternative Bosch or Autel. Reading the temperature at Autel maxiscan shows -50 C which is incorrect of course. As this is happening on both i suspect its either the tool cannot read these (but other live data is read ok) or something else is happening. Is there a module that reads these that could be a problem?

Can someone point out the normal catalytic temperature in Celsius or Fahrenheit?

From https://technistrada.com/content/7-ferrari-slow-down-light-explained it says warning is taking place at 960 C which is way too far from what i measured...

 

I mis-typed. If it’s above 800C you’re in trouble. A cat should be ~800F when working correctly, that’s the temp usually necessary to perform the catalyzing.

 

Take the car out and get it to shoot the error code and read the temps. That’ll get you on the right path

 

The issue is - NO ERROR CODE AT ALL... Im about to buy Launch X431 to have a reading at the moment of slow down warning - maybe then there would be some error. No stored errors.

Im not sure if there is any other car that is not storing an error with such issue.

In 2-3 days will get the temperature measured - its hard here to get a tool measuring over 380C.

 

Before you throw down $700 on an X431, get an Autel AP200. It reads all the systems on the car and only costs $70. Unless you're going to be doing the work yourself, an X431 is a bit overkill.

 

Update:
The cats are all OKAY. Checked with heat gun - max is 550 C.

However i managed to get the issue simulated. The cause is loss of pressure in the F1.

When i start switching N->1->N->R->N->1->R etc random and quickly the pressure is going down (as per monitoring "Hydraulic Circuit Pressure").
It drops down on every shift, then goes up but sometimes its not that fast - when it goes under 39 BAR car goes into SLOW DOWN mode. The pump is not switching on for the next 30 seconds. After some times the pump is switching on and the pressure quickly goes to normal state.

My mechanic (by phone) told me i need to get the pump replaced... However i see it quickly tops up the pressure level.

How could the long driving be connected with lose of pressure?

Here is a video of the "DEMO":
https://streamable.com/hn628s

Again: Not a single error in ANY module related to this

 

Not an expert but have an engineering background. Can you go between N->1 rapidly and still get the problem to appear? Also when was the last time the F1 fluid was changed?

 

N->1 is doing this but need some longer rapid shifting N->1-N->1 etc. F1 fluid was changed recently - 2 weeks ago when changed the clutch.

 

I have a 2005 f430 that has had this intermittent problem since I bought the car 4yrs ago and my dealer (Naples Motorsports) has not been able to duplicate the problem to find a solution. No stored codes with the amber slow down and no other warnings occur.Happens if car is being driven hard or easy.I am very interested in this discussion and solution.

 

My prediction is the accumulator needs replaced OR there is a pressure sensor that tells the system when the pressure has dropped, that could be causing issues. Of course there is a limit to how many times you can shift fast before you overtax the system but I don't know what that number would be. The pump typically comes on after a fairly small number of shifts so the limit on number of rapid shifts can't be too big.