FORMULA 1 PIRELLI BRITISH GRAND PRIX-->RACE ▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄ | Page 14 | FerrariChat

FORMULA 1 PIRELLI BRITISH GRAND PRIX-->RACE ▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄

Discussion in 'F1' started by jgonzalesm6, Aug 2, 2020.

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  1. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447

    That's right, and that lack of focus and management isn't Mercedes' fault.
     
  2. Cavallino Nero Rampante

    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 16, 2018
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    ST


    ...but the excuses and revisionists history police run rampant here :D.
     
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  3. DreamCarrera

    DreamCarrera Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2006
    814
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    Eric
    I updated your "update" to include the latest info on Hamilton (in bold type).
     
  4. Patrick Dixon

    Patrick Dixon Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2012
    1,083
    UK
    In fact I believe Mercedes has tried to help Ferrari by taking some of their rejected technical staff and employing them in key roles, in an effort to bring the Mercedes down to Ferrari level.
     
  5. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    At this point, the strategy is failing for Merc.......

    Perhaps Ferrari let the wrong personnel go ???
     
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  6. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447
    :p
     
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  7. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Joe R Gonzales
    Kvyat's right rear blew out before his climatic shunt.

     
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  8. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2005
    11,882
    Martin Brundle called it correctly.
     
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  9. Cavallino Nero Rampante

    Rossa Subscribed

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    So that's four blown tires in the race? Debris and/or outright tire degradation failures?

    What is an interesting thing of note is how hard Kvyat was on himself afterwards even at the press coral. Martin Brundle immediately following the wreck stated it was a problem with the right rear tire. That information should have therefore been pretty obvious to Alpha. My observation would be that he has been made so insecure by his time at Red Bull and their management that he blames himself first rather than 'feeling' what went wrong with the car or at least waiting for replays and the data to come through to give a proper analysis and comment.
     
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  10. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,281
    Le caylar (France)
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    mathieu Jeantet
    Gasly won gp2 championship ,
    Albon only two races in this serie.
    I don't know how you can say ha was most promising?
    Fact is Verstappen is an outstanding driver and Red Bull is right to bet on him.
    They only have to remember they have a second driver to score points
     
  11. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,281
    Le caylar (France)
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    mathieu Jeantet
    And in few years we will discover Mercedes invested twice more than Ferrari and Red Bull during the hybrid era.
     
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  12. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    Igor Ound
    That’s pretty much known already
     
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  13. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    41,299
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    Bas
    Mercedes F1: 1600 staff
    Red Bull: 650 Staff

    It's not running out of excuses, it's looking at the reality.
     
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  14. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Bas
    Ross Brawn admitted to it. They where done a year ahead of anyone else, got the engine freeze in, been laughing themselves to death at the destruction of a once loved sport ever since.
     
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  15. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2005
    11,882
    +1 Amen.
     
  16. LamboLover

    LamboLover F1 Rookie

    Jul 16, 2006
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    Rick
    Do you have a link for that b/c the web doesn't show numbers that high in difference at all.

    Red Bull links you to their LinkedIn when searching for jobs on their site; it reports at least 760 employees listed.
    Mercedes' LinkedIn documents 844 employees, but their website does make note that there are at least 950 employees who work at Brackley.

    I think you're confusing reality with not wanting to realize much of Mercedes success comes from Ferrari & Red Bull shortcomings despite both teams being more than capable of following Mercedes' lead. Red Bull is too focused on Max & has issues getting their second driver up to par, whilst Ferrari has displayed terrible team management whether it's on-track awful pit strategy or in-house development of the car falling well below Ferrari standards.
     
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  17. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 31, 2016
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    Joe R Gonzales
    Use the search tool at the top and type in 2019 budgets analyzed.....should be the first one....click on it.

    Mercedes employs 1000 employees. Underneath that figure it says another 500 engine related.

    RedBull employs 780 employees.
     
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  18. Cavallino Nero Rampante

    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 16, 2018
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    Red Bull Reveals How Much It Really Costs To Run An F1 Team

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2020/01/14/red-bull-reveals-how-much-it-really-costs-to-run-an-f1-team/#3cc5e75b77c1

    BY:
    Christian SyltSenior Contributor
    SportsMoney
    I cover the theme park industry and the business of Formula One

    Red Bull has revealed precisely how much it costs to keep the wheels of one of its Formula One teams turning, right down to the amount it spends on buying the material to build the cars and the stickers that appear on them.

    Unlike teams in some other sports, F1 outfits disclose a great deal of financial information and there is good reason for this. Seven of the ten teams are based in Britain and are private limited companies which, ironically, have to file publicly-available annual financial statements. This requirement applies to any private limited company in Britain with more than $11.4 million (£10.2 million) of annual revenue and over 50 employees so it covers all the F1 teams based there.

    Their financial statements itemise certain costs like salaries and investment in fixed assets but the bulk of the spending is split into production costs and administrative expenses. In contrast, private limited companies in Italy have to disclose far more information including a detailed analysis of their revenue and costs. It lifts the lid on the finances of one of the F1 teams in particular.

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    The three outfits based outside Britain are Switzerland’s Alfa Romeo, Italy’s famous Ferrari squad and Red Bull’s junior team Toro Rosso. Swiss companies aren’t required to file public financial statements so that puts the brakes on analysis of Alfa Romeo’s finances. Ferrari’s F1 team is just a division of the auto maker so it doesn’t need to disclose detailed financial results. However, Toro Rosso is the exception.

    The team’s sister outfit is Red Bull Racing which is also owned by the Austrian energy drinks giant. Both teams are private limited companies but Red Bull Racing is based in Britain whereas Toro Rosso is located in Italy. This means it has to file detailed financial statements which are around 50% longer than the ones for its counterpart in Britain. However, the documents are in Italian so have largely remained under the radar. Until now.

    Toro Rosso has an aerodynamics department in Britain which led to it establishing a branch office in the country. In turn, it has to translate its financial statements into English and although it has been doing this since 2011, its filings have accelerated over the past 18 months. They included three years of backdated financial statements which reveal precisely what it takes to keep the team ticking over.

    The team’s single biggest source of revenue is Red Bull itself which plasters its logos on the sides of Toro Rosso’s cars as well as on their front and rear wings. In the year to 31 December 2018 Red Bull poured $82.9 million (€74.4 million) into the team in return for this exposure. Then comes $30.3 million (€27.2 million) from sales and services and, according to the financial statements, that “includes revenues from sponsorship and from the sale of materials and spare parts of €733,000 [$0.8 million].”

    Next up is $59.7 million (€53.6 million) of other revenue which includes prize money as the financial statements say it comes from “the F1 World Championship commercial rights, other revenues from core business and grants for research and development.” Capping it all off is a $10.7 million (€9.6 million) increase in the value of products under development bringing Toro Rosso’s total revenue to $183.6 million (€164.8 million) as shown in the table below.

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    Toro Rosso's financial statements reveal how much it costs to keep its wheels turning

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    F1’s prize money is paid in arrears the year after it is earned so Toro Rosso’s haul in 2018 was based on its seventh place in 2017. Since then it has finished in ninth and sixth place which was its joint-best ever result. The previous record came in 2008 when the team won its first and only race since it was founded in 1985 by Italian entrepreneur Giancarlo Minardi.

    Red Bull bought the team in 2005 and has used it to train drivers, get another seat at the negotiating table and rev up the exposure of its brand. It will get an even bigger boost this year when Toro Rosso is renamed AlphaTauri after a clothing brand connected to Red Bull.

    According to the financial statements, investments in tangible assets including new production machinery, new hardware and track equipment came to $5.7 million (€5.1 million) in 2018. A further $0.8 million (€0.7 million) was spent on intangible assets, such as new software, but that was just the start.

    The financial statements reveal that “purchases of materials used to build the F1 cars, team clothing, stickers for F1 cars and other consumables” had a high-octane cost. It came to $56.5 million (€50.7 million) and was followed by “costs for car transport services, race car driver and team travel and lodging expenses,

    maintenance and repair of equipment and other operating assets, race car driver fees, consultancy and professional services, advertising services and other general services, such as electricity, mail, telephone, etc.” They are grouped under the category of services and cost $45.6 million (€40.9 million) in 2018.

    Toro Rosso uses 1.6 liter V6 turbo engines which are made by Honda and cost an estimated $17 million annually. It is shown in the category of use of third party assets which also includes “leases of flats and production sheds, rental of cars and other goods, royalties for patents, licences and concessions and championship services. Lastly, it includes rental of test circuits.” It comes to a total of $22.6 million (€20.3 million) and is just behind staff costs at $40 million (€35.9 million).

    The staff breakdown is also far more detailed than the ones found in British financial statements which tend to have just two categories. In contrast, Toro Rosso’s filings reveal that the team has four managers, 14 junior managers, 190 white collar workers and 102 blue collars giving a total of 310.

    The remaining expenses are the smallest and include $8.5 million (€7.6 million) of non-cash charges and $1.4 million (€1.3 million) of other operating costs such as the team’s entry fee to the F1 championship. It brings the costs to a total of $181.1 million (€162.5 million) leaving it with a $2.5 million (€2.3 million) operating profit.

    Then comes $0.3 million (€0.3 million) of financial income and $1 million (€0.9 million) of tax giving Toro Rosso a $1.8 million (€1.7 million) net profit. So it makes money as well as driving exposure for Red Bull and that really is the winning formula.
     
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  19. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,716
    Tropical
    #346 Ferrari 308 GTB, Aug 3, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
    Why should Vettel break into a sweat anyway ..they pissed him off big time but he would never admit to that. He will pay them back somehow..

    Just need to kick out Grosjean and put Perez in the seat with the Slim$$$. Could they do that sooner ?

    Vettel walks leaving Ferrari with who to replace him for the last few races?
     
  20. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Vettel has been more than well compensated. The team said he would be released and offered no deal. He's upset why. Management made a decision on an employee lol. He's owed nothing. He gets paid to drive. Vettel took 2 winning cars and via error he lost 2 titles. We care he's leaving???? He has had a great life in F1. Ciao Seb.
     
  21. LamboLover

    LamboLover F1 Rookie

    Jul 16, 2006
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    Rick
    #348 LamboLover, Aug 3, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
    You need to read what it's actually saying about the 500 under HPP, then. They do not work exclusively for Mercedes.
    Also take note that Red Bull's stats also have an exclusion under staff regarding "projects".

    We're talking about a 220 employee difference at immediate notice, which is a far cry from the claimed 950 difference toted earlier.
     
  22. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,716
    Tropical
    Yes but it must be demoralising , we dont really want you but will expect you to be 100 pct committed ,not gonna happen
     
  23. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    He is an employee and is replaceable. He saw other people leave RedBull and he also left Red Bull and in reports it was not the perfect departure either. When is ever perfect. He did not see how Kimi and MS were moved along lol????
     

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