308 GTS 2V cam drive pully ring nut socket. | FerrariChat

308 GTS 2V cam drive pully ring nut socket.

Discussion in '308/328' started by bl10, Jul 26, 2020.

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  1. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    377
    Chatsworth, CA
    Full Name:
    Barry Leavengood
    Planning on switching to Derek's round tooth pulleys so I'm looking for a ring nut socket for the cam belt drive pulley. I believe its 28mm. Anyone have one they would sell (preferred) or lend. I know I can get one from Superfromance as well as a couple of other sources, just thought if someone had on they have no use for.

    Thanks

    Barry
     
  2. dave80gtsi

    dave80gtsi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,813
    Ohio
    Full Name:
    Dave Meredith

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  3. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    I suggest you buy the tool. That is a pretty important nut to get right.
     
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  4. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,321
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    Some F-Supply houses sell a hex replacement. But if you buy/make the tool to get the 1st nut off, just buy the ring nut replacement. If you borrow the tool for 1st nut, then maybe the hex nut replacement is the way to go...... just saying.
     
  5. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    377
    Chatsworth, CA
    Full Name:
    Barry Leavengood
    So after breaking my home made ring nut tool I bought one of Hill eng tools from SuperFormance. I also checked into my impact gun and found it to only have about 480 ft lbs of torque so I bought one that has 1000 +. Even it struggled a bit but the nut cam off. Lots of grease from the bearing seal so even though it hadn't failed it probably wasn't long for this world.

    Read all the posts I could find an looks like the only way to get it out with the front cover on is to remove the bearing cage by drilling or grinding then using a small puller that will fit between the inner and outer races.

    Do I have to remove the entire cage to get enough clearance for the puller? I would suppose so, so the balls can be moved next to each other.

    Thanks

    Barry Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  6. Miklas

    Miklas Karting

    Dec 10, 2018
    79
    Luxembourg
    You only need to break the cage in two places and then the balls can be moved aside so the puller can be inserted. I broke my cage with a screwdriver. I first tried to drill but the drill would only get stuck.
     
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  7. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    377
    Chatsworth, CA
    Full Name:
    Barry Leavengood
    Thanks

    I'll try with a screw driver
     
  8. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    377
    Chatsworth, CA
    Full Name:
    Barry Leavengood
    Do you guys heat the front cover around the cam drive bearing so it pulls out easier?
    Is there a puller other than sykes that will work?
    I'm messing with making one now that I understand how it works but the press fit races seem really tight. (as I would expect)

    Thanks
    Barry
     
  9. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    377
    Chatsworth, CA
    Full Name:
    Barry Leavengood
    Couldn't get one of the professional ball type bearing extractor any sooner than a couple of weeks so I finished making one. Ended up using grade 8 bolts as grade 5 pulled through The tie wraps just keep the puller prongs from falling out. . Worked with no problem. Used screw driver to break the bearing cage. No problem. The inner snap ring in front of the seal was a real pain. Actually broke my snap ring pliers but eventually got it out.

    Quick question about the seal, the one between the inner and outer bearings. When I went to take it out using the screw method it pushed (moved) about 1/4 inch further back in the bore indicating to me It wasn't completely seated. There's quite a bit of space between the inside snap ring and the rear bearing. Is it normal to just center the seal in the bore without seating it against the rear bearing? Is there some kind of spacer that's supposed to fill the space between the seal and bearing or seal and snap ring.

    Do you guys recommend using any sealer on the outside of the seal? There isn't any there now.

    Another funny thing. The rear bearing, if that's what I'm looking at, appears to be a sealed bearing like the front, however, the rear bearings I got from Superformace are un-sealed. Maybe I orderd the wrong ones or are not looking at it right but there was no oil to speak of behind the seal. Makes me wonder why the seal is there. Not planning on changing the rear bearings just wanted to make sure I had them if needed. By the way the Superformace front bearings are SKF 6293-2RSH/C4.The C4 means extra clearance. We used C4 clearance bearings in our racing model airplane engines as anything tighter (C-1 - C-3) would eventually spin in the crankcase. With the C4 clearance we used a very tight interference fit that would bind up and overheat the tighter bearings. I was advised that the NTN bearings are better but could not source them. Not sure about the SKF grease but I doubt its hi temp.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    377
    Chatsworth, CA
    Full Name:
    Barry Leavengood
    Guess I had it wrong. What I see once the seal is removed it the cam drive gear according to this cross section drawing. Anyone know the source of this drawing? I'm going to measure the drive seal surface length vs the seal thickness. According to the drawing there should be just enough space for the seal. Maybe I crushed the seal which gave the appearance of too much space.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,041
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    That particular figure (labeled as Fig. 30) is from page B37 of the 308QV/328 WSM, but the same figure appears labeled as Fig. 27 on page B37 of the 281/83 Mondial8/QV WSM.

    (You do need to be careful when installing the new lip seal from the front to not drive it in too deep -- there is no physical stop in that direction.)
     
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  12. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    You cannot see the rear bearing from outside the case....
     
  13. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    377
    Chatsworth, CA
    Full Name:
    Barry Leavengood
    Thanks Steve
    So I should just drive the seal past the snap ring groove and let it go at that?

    Barry
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,041
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Yes, just deep enough to reinstall the snap ring.
     
  15. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    377
    Chatsworth, CA
    Full Name:
    Barry Leavengood
  16. bl10

    bl10 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    377
    Chatsworth, CA
    Full Name:
    Barry Leavengood

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