812 VS Rumors | Page 87 | FerrariChat

812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. day355

    day355 Formula 3

    Jun 25, 2006
    2,058
    If you re exited by hybrid, yes !
    Seriously, there is nothing more exiting to come, exept one car and Icona
     
  2. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    I agree with you I am not saying i am excited by future models not really in fact i just wanted to share some thoughts about the future and future strategy. The model I’m really excited about right now is the VS ( provided it remains a pure na)
    The 812 is prob one of ( if not the) last pure masterpiece. Future models sure will be more powerful, hybrid but not really what i’m excited about. These will be super expensive and will turn the 812 into a bargain sooner than we think
     
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  3. RamsHmb

    RamsHmb Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 22, 2017
    1,030
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    James
    Very true but the volume here is going to be lower. My car was the first delivered in the us and as a 2021 model. Honestly, I could really care less but will be interesting to see. But it’s a very fair point you make ;)
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  4. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,283
    Le caylar (France)
    Full Name:
    mathieu Jeantet
    and the next hypercar maybe ?
     
  5. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,860
    While it does seem like the future will involve some kind of hybrid system or other assistance, and therefore is not as naturally exciting as the allure of a NA V12 to many of us (myself included) lets not forget the recent lesson of the 812 GTS. Many worried about the dreaded GPF. It must ruin the sound right? And it must ruin the experience. Well, on the evidence of several actual owners here, the GTS sounds great and is involving to drive- so the experience was not ruined one bit!

    Ferrari managed to get around it and deliver a car that we will love to drive and own. So while there are challenges and things about which to be concerned, we shouldn’t forget that Ferrari is a master of getting around these challenges and they always delight us. I can remember a time when everyone cried about no more stick shifts. Do most of us have this conversation anymore? No. If you want a stick shift Ferrari, there are many available.

    As pertains to the GTS, it seems to me they will be in production roughly a similar time to SF, maybe even a little longer, so it is possible there will be the same number, even more than SF. SF could be looked upon in the future as a relative bargain, but its impossible to know the future. So we have to just enjoy the present and try to make our best plans for tomorrow.

    FORZA FERRARI!!!!


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  6. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2017
    864
    San Diego, CA
    I agree with some of what you said...but the 812 GTS production has been limited to 2 years as confirmed by the factory and multiple dealers. I think they are aiming to produce less.
     
  7. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    It's more than sound, which is changed, it is long term engine performance with all that added backpressure (which is poison to the engine), it is potential replacement costs when one fails (based on F8 pricing, should be around $7000 per GPF/4way-catalyst) in the 812 and you have to replace both if you replace one otherwise one side of the engine will be working much harder than the other

    because it is emissions related, it should, in the USA, include 8 year warranty...

    and don't forget that Leiters directly stated they were able to overcome the horsepower loss, but barely, so the engine is more strained

    https://www.topgear.com/car-news/supercars/ferrari-says-it-will-fight-save-v12-extinction:
    That particulate filter was a particular issue for Leiters and his team, as it meant power was originally down on the hard-top 812. He regards the engineering work to replace that power as his proudest achievement with the GTS.

    and for long-term owners all of that matters in addition to the sound...
     
  8. day355

    day355 Formula 3

    Jun 25, 2006
    2,058
    It concern few people and for the moment it s still brain storming
     
  9. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,283
    Le caylar (France)
    Full Name:
    mathieu Jeantet

    Ok Valkyrie and T50 are two game changers.
    Not in the same league either.
    Ferrari should be brave on this one !
     
  10. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
    759
    UK
    Full Name:
    Karl
    Fully agree. I know for a fact that Kline and Novitec are currently developing GPF-delete options for the 812 SF and GTS. Given that there are various sensors involved I think it's not as simple as for a cat replacement, but I'm confident something should pop up soon. And in due course, any model which has GPF fitted will have people who want it removed, so a solution will be developed...
     
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  11. RotKopf

    RotKopf Karting

    Jul 27, 2004
    208
    Has anyone been able to confirm how much weight is added by inclusion of GPF, both in terms of the GPF itself but also extra heat shielding necessary?
     
  12. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    Only "solutions" that "pretend" to work are those that plug into the OBD2 port and block the codes to the ECU so it does not produce CELs...not a viable long-term strategy, plus will likely negate warranty if discovered...and I presume Ferrari will create an update to trap this (for instance, if GPF does not produce an "I'm present" signal every so-often, throw code...)

    you might take a look here for failed attempt by a major after-market exhaust company...
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147379125/
     
  13. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    not that I know of, but an estimate would be 50kg total additional weight, remember the general guideline is GPF devices must displace as much volume as the engine's displacement, so, they will be large (3.2L each)
     
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  14. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 3, 2012
    3,053
    UK
    I think it will be very difficult to do a GPF delete, plus it will void warranty. Worse than that, the car will not be road legal anymore. I don’t think you can underestimate the EU’s determination to ensure that if a car is fitted with a GPF to reach emissions, it stays that way. One of the brands I work with has already had a number of customers’ cars checked, with issues found. These have to be rectified. So the manufacturer will be pretty unhappy if it turns out they are modified. If it keeps happening, the manufacturer is forced to fix it and other sanctions can apply, I believe even a ‘stop sale’ order is possible. The only way around would be to put it back to stock before VOSA (in the UK, other bodies in other EU states) test the car. That will be expensive and the manufacturer is not notified before the test, it would rely on the customer, who won’t bother.
     
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  15. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
    1,160
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Barry K
    Totally agree. In fact, at the GTS launch last summer, one of the Ferrari tech people at the presentation spoke about how, in the post emissions-scandal world, the regulators are looking to the manufacturers ensure that these devices are not easily defeated by a third-party (e.g by deletion). There are guys in Germany who will sell kits that suppress warning lights by sending codes through the OBD ports, but that activity gets registered in the system memory as evidence of tampering.
     
  16. Lagunae92

    Lagunae92 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2018
    2,030
    SoCal
  17. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2004
    16,445
    ON
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    CH
    did they retain the mechanical lifters like the tdF motor or did they use hydraulic lifters like the 812 motor has???
     
  18. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,582
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    They taped over the exit vents on top of the fenders but kept the intake openings behind the windows. Therefore, they had to exhaust the air and that's what the funky vents are for around the quad exhaust tips. This feature may not be in the released version especially if the top vents return in some form.
     
  19. Lagunae92

    Lagunae92 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2018
    2,030
    SoCal
    Those HAVE to go. Even on the mule. Lol
     
  20. [gTr]

    [gTr] Formula 3

    Mar 11, 2008
    1,024
    Hamburg, Germany
    Based on the reviews of the 812 GTS by owners like yourself (thank you again for sharing) as well as the reviews of the new Roma, the GPF is pretty much a non-event for front engined Ferraris. This is even less of a shift than going from carbs to injectors. The mid-engined cars seem to be having a much larger impact of the GPF but that again is at low and part throttle applications and I am sure Ferrari will find a way around this over time. Even though there has been liberal world is ending scenario exercise done over GPF on Ferrarichat, I personally am not bothered much about it, especially for the 812 special edition.
     
  21. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
    759
    UK
    Full Name:
    Karl
    The reason the mid engined cars have a larger impact from GPF has nothing to do with the engine layout - its the turbos. If you combine turbo and GPF you get crap sound a la F8 Tributo.

    I agree GPF is likely not a big issue for the 812 special edition, unless it has turbos. What might be a bigger issue from a sound standpoint is the incoming strict EU noise limits (which the GTS seems to have dodged). As per GPF it’s likely these would apply to the whole production; not only certain countries
     
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  22. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
    759
    UK
    Full Name:
    Karl
    I wonder if they are using the 812 as a test mule...? If not, looks VERY similar to the 812 SF, except for some ugly additions to rear diffuser and a slightly reshaped front bumper...
     
  23. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2017
    864
    San Diego, CA
    lol yes thats an 812 mule... if that...
     

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