Fixing convertible top bar / elastic? | FerrariChat

Fixing convertible top bar / elastic?

Discussion in '360/430' started by arachnyd, Aug 24, 2020.

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  1. arachnyd

    arachnyd Karting

    Feb 5, 2016
    129
    Springboro
    My convertible top didn't work unless I manually push the bar backand then the top goes down.

    I brought it to a reputable shop 3 hours away and they charged me $1500 or so and fixed it by putting in new elastic.

    6 months later it stopped working again. I got in there and tried to sew the elastic on to pull it forward, and evidentIy I'm an idiot because even though I was able to sew the elastic band around the bar to pull it backwards, it still doesn't seem to work.

    Anyone have any good diagrams and/or how tos/and or explanation on how that is supposed to work so I can fix it?
     
  2. Dr.Gee

    Dr.Gee Karting

    Mar 18, 2015
    221
    Detroit
    Full Name:
    Gee Monie
    I await the same
     
  3. BruceC

    BruceC Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 26, 2018
    249
    Tucson, AZ
    Had my top worked on today and asked the tech. to take a few pics. Don't know if they're of any use or not, I still find the assembly confusing. You might be able to get some advice from Andy at Tuscon Tops > https://tucsontops.com/ Andy made his own elastic bands vs. the overpriced replacement hardware on Ricambi where you can see an exploded diagram of the top, but I didn't particularly find it helpful. $330 total for the repair, so we'll see how it holds up. Andy is a one-man show, so it can be a little iffy contacting him by phone.

    There's also a brief "how to" for cable replacement on Aldous Voice, but again I thought the info was pretty sparse > https://aldousvoice.com/2014/12/07/ferrari-360-f430-spider-roof-cable-replacement/


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  4. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Aug 8, 2005
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    Canada, Florida
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    Fred
    There is something special about the way the elastic to pull that bar has to be installed.
    2 years ago I replaced as many of the elastic bands as I could see. Every aspect of my top works
    other that that bar. It has become so automatic for me to just push it back while operating the
    open button that I was thinking of training the wife to do it instead of her sitting there fiddling with her hat.
    She doesn't visit this forum so I'm safe!
     
  5. Apollo 11

    Apollo 11 Karting

    Feb 11, 2019
    114
    San Francisco, CA
    Full Name:
    Randy
    The confusing part for me is there must be a certain tension on the straps when installed. How do you determine what the tension should be?
     
  6. S F

    S F Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    May 13, 2016
    164
    Texas
    I recently watched this video out of curiosity since I'm subscribed. The guy in the video does a great job of explaining/showing how the elastic attaches and how the top works.

     
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  7. spider348

    spider348 Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,264
    MA
    Full Name:
    John
    Thank you BruceC. Appears your tech removes the inside headliner to gain open access. Band replacement easier to tension properly when fully exposed I would think. 1 of my many winter projects!
     
  8. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    May 25, 2019
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    John
    Looks like the SOP is to peel back the canvas cover. I see several others have done it this way. I suspect it's possible to replace the bands without pulling back the top canvas but the result may be less satisfactory because of access problems. It's important to get both sides equal tension and both sides the right tension. It would be hard to do that with the canvas attached. The top appears to come off by removing the metal bar at the front.
     
  9. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Aug 8, 2005
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    Fred
  10. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    May 25, 2019
    1,717
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    I finished replacing the elastic bands on my 360 yesterday. The job was quite satisfying as it was not difficult, I didn't break anything and it worked.

    I wrote an extensive article on the process for my blog:

    https://www.ferrari360.org/2020/09/capote-elastic-bands-and-more.html

    The important thing to do with the elastic is to measure it properly. I didn't see anyone using a reliable method of setting the tension for these bands and no explanation on how to do it. I found a reliable method of measuring the bands and setting the proper tension is to stretch the old band to the maximum length and measuring that. It's the only metric that can be easily reproduced. Stretch the replacement material in the same way to determine where to cut the band.

    Another thing I found is that the slot-in-the-bar method of replacing the elastic is flawed. Two videos I watched used that method. If one uses a slot and passes the elastic through the slot, the elastic band can move forward or backward through that slot and throw off the tension or even worse, make it unequal side to side. Instead of cutting a slot, I drilled 1/16" holes in the plastic bar and sewed the band to it like a button.

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    The headliner bands are mostly discussed when fixing this issue. Another equally important and likely missed set of bands which are riveted to the back of the frame like the headliner bands and is used to fold the canvas into the proper shape should also be changed.

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    The "secondary" bands are shown here sewn to tabs cut from the canvas. Replacing these bands is just as important as the headliner bands.

    Here's a video showing how they operate after replacing both sets of bands:

     
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  11. Husker

    Husker F1 World Champ

    Dec 31, 2003
    11,788
    western hemisphere
    Dumb question here, but are the bands stretched while the top is stowed away, or when it is covering the car? I assume they are under load when the cover is in use.
     
  12. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    May 25, 2019
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    Some bands are stretched, others relaxed. Some bands only appear to be of any use during the folding process, others seem to be required to hold the top tight when up.

    The much discussed headliner bands appear to be relaxed in the stowed condition.
     
  13. Husker

    Husker F1 World Champ

    Dec 31, 2003
    11,788
    western hemisphere
    I avoid such problems by keeping my stop stowed. I only drive when it’s nice out, so no need to use the top.
     
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  14. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    May 25, 2019
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    After doing this work on the capote, I feel for the first time that the system is (more or less) reliable. I understand most of the elements and on my car, they appear to be in fine shape now. The car had been very well taken care of for the last 20 years. I doubt it has ever been driven in the rain. The rubber looks new and I've found zero corrosion of any kind. Everything I've taken apart looks clean and new. Even the elastic bands looked new. They were like old tires. Look ok but lack any flex.

    I'm coming up on my one year anniversary and I can honestly say that as of this moment, my gated Ferrari 360 Spider is working 100%. Tomorrow, who knows. Right this moment, all good.

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  15. Apollo 11

    Apollo 11 Karting

    Feb 11, 2019
    114
    San Francisco, CA
    Full Name:
    Randy
    Thank you for doing that write up John. Mine just started acting up last week, so the timing couldn't be better. When opening, I have to give it a little assistance when the front part flips back. Otherwise, it won't go all the way into the storage compartment.

    Where did you source the elastic material?
     
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  16. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Fred
    Thank you John
     
  17. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    May 25, 2019
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    One thing I didn't mention in the post here but did cover in my blog article is the other six bands that should be replaced too. Four of these bands that are attached frame to frame act as counterweights to the rear wing when the secondary cylinders kick in. These counterweight bands reduce the load on the secondary cylinders and the pump. I suspect that these worn out bands are partially responsible for my secondary cylinders failing ($$$ expensive).

    These bands should be considered a PM item and replaced every five to seven years at a minimum. We routinely replace tires at these intervals even though they still have tread and look like new. The same goes for the bands. They are rubber and are subject to the same wear and aging effects as tires. After seven years, they will have lost a significant percentage of their stretch.

    So if you have a Spider and haven't changed the bands in recent memory, change them now. Perhaps a good future schedule for PM of these bands should be when the tires are changed, the bands should also be changed. Do that and your capote will actually work (more or less) reliably.
     
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  18. Husker

    Husker F1 World Champ

    Dec 31, 2003
    11,788
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    John this is all such a great write-up. I recall with I was in the 348 forum, there were a couple of guys who knew just about everything about the cars. Ernie, NoDoubt, and a few others. I put you and SkidKid in the "go to" for everything 360. So nice to have you on the board.

    Those elastic bands, are those Ferrari-issue items or something you can buy at the local hardware store?
     
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  19. Husker

    Husker F1 World Champ

    Dec 31, 2003
    11,788
    western hemisphere
    On the topic of tops, I found that a metal portion of the mechanism was in fact taking paint off of the "hump" cover, every time it operated. You could clearly see a quarter inch marring of the paint on the hump on the driver's side. I had to get in there with a drimmel and file and do some serious shaving to get that stopped. Then I touched up the paint and wet sanded it. It passes the 6 foot test.
     
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  20. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    May 25, 2019
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    I did something today that I had been afraid to do for the entire time I've owned my 360 Spider. While stopped at a store, I put the top up. Then, when I returned from shopping, put the top down again. I had no fear. Amazing feeling.

    I suppose knowing what to look for helped a lot. When I see the proper fold in the headliner and all the parts moving in the right order, I had confidence that the top would stow without a twitch and it did.

    The process of changing out the elastic bands, secondary cylinders and the other repairs I performed during that time really gave me an insight as to how the system operates. And as is always the case, knowledge eases fear.
     
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  21. Apollo 11

    Apollo 11 Karting

    Feb 11, 2019
    114
    San Francisco, CA
    Full Name:
    Randy
    I look forward to changing the elastic bands on mine in a couple weeks. Thanks for the detailed instructions.

    Question: How long do you think it will take to do the job?
     
  22. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    May 25, 2019
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    Maybe four to six hours. I could do it again in three. Most of the time I spent being careful.
     
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  23. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
    18,760
    is the top for the 430 the same as the 360? ive never had an issue in any of my 430s.
     
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  24. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    May 25, 2019
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    Exactly the same, part for part. You've had the problem, it's just that it didn't get bad enough to corrupt the system.
     
  25. Husker

    Husker F1 World Champ

    Dec 31, 2003
    11,788
    western hemisphere
    Super!
     

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