599 Misfiring Badly After Having The Scheduled 2 Year Major Service performed | FerrariChat

599 Misfiring Badly After Having The Scheduled 2 Year Major Service performed

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by denfpal, Aug 25, 2020.

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  1. denfpal

    denfpal Karting

    Apr 30, 2015
    59
    Parkland, FL
    Full Name:
    Dennis Palumbo
    Does anyone have any ideas about this type of problem: 2008 599 GTB Fiorano with 9,700 miles on the clock and perfectly maintained. Engine ran perfectly on a long, fast drive to the dealership - Major 2-Year Service was performed by a very good F Tech - Tech test-drove the car (fairly hard) after serving and it performed perfectly for him as well. I go to leave the dealership and start the engine and the car begins shaking profusely, which it has never done before...I immediately shutdown the engine. Tech drives the car (still misfiring) back inside the shop and the diagnostics say that cylinder #7 is misfiring. Tech again stated that the car ran perfectly on the road test, which I believe since he never would have returned the car back to me in this condition. Tech then replaces all 6 spark plugs on the same side/bank as #7. Engine is still misfiring, but this time the diagnostics didn't say that #7 was misfiring...just that there is a misfire. Tech changes all 6 spark plugs on the other side/bank of the engine and it is still misfiring. Car has been at the dealership for 2 days now and I'm starting to become concerned. Is there a better more efficient way to approach this problem versus the exploratory surgery method? - any ideas what to target next to identify the problem and associated fix - please advise - Dennis.
     
  2. Redneck Slim

    Redneck Slim Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 10, 2011
    1,440
    Palo Alto,CA,USA
    Full Name:
    Walt Kimball
    One problem that pops up on this forum is an engine that runs poorly after servicing because of overfilling with engine oil. The oil ends up in the intake tract. This is easy to check.
     
    Mor and Texas Forever like this.
  3. denfpal

    denfpal Karting

    Apr 30, 2015
    59
    Parkland, FL
    Full Name:
    Dennis Palumbo
    Thank you this good information - I will suggest this to the F Service Advisor and Tech tomorrow morning - I would be happy if something like this was in fact the problem - also, I would think that the Tech should already know about this scenario as the potential problem? - maybe they are having a contest at the F dealership to see who can sell the most F spark plugs at $50 a throw (just for the parts).
     
  4. gsholz

    gsholz Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2006
    319
    Oregon
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    A good shop would dig a little deeper before changing 6 spark plugs. E.g. put a scope on the coil leads and the injectors to narrow down what is causing the misfire.
     
    Circle K, RayJohns, Ray Smith and 3 others like this.
  5. denfpal

    denfpal Karting

    Apr 30, 2015
    59
    Parkland, FL
    Full Name:
    Dennis Palumbo
    Thanks - actually they have already replaced all 12 spark plugs. I will follow up with them based on your suggestion.
     
  6. Doctor Mark

    Doctor Mark Formula Junior

    Dec 15, 2005
    870
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Mark Gronsbell
    What did the plugs that he removed look like? 599 is easy to overfill with oil so wonder if that is the source of the issue. Throwing parts at the car is not the way to resolve the issue. It is important to find the root cause of the issue.
     
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  7. lawteam

    lawteam Karting

    May 15, 2009
    74
    Palm Beach Gardens, FL
    Full Name:
    Evan Fetterman
    "Very good" F tech should have better diagnostic capabilities. I had similar problem with an independent on a 575 years ago. turned out to be a disaster requiring significant repair when finally taken to dealer. if you are at a Ferrari dealer now, at least you should be covered and should not be paying for needless sparkplug changes, etc.
     
    Texas Forever likes this.
  8. EP328

    EP328 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2008
    616
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Ed
    At a nearby Ferrari dealership, their “best tech” overfilled the crankcase oil on my 599. Oil was leaking down from the side vents. Even the best technicians at Ferrari dealerships make mistakes. It is frustrating when they do, but it happens.
     
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  9. denfpal

    denfpal Karting

    Apr 30, 2015
    59
    Parkland, FL
    Full Name:
    Dennis Palumbo
    The plugs looked just right; however they were original. Engine oil was not overfilled (and no smoking from exhaust. Turns out that the fuel rail had a lot of dirt in it and 2 of the injectors were very clogged - they sent the rail and the injectors out to a specialty shop to be rebuilt. I will know the verdict tomorrow. Who should pay for the spark plug job?

     
  10. denfpal

    denfpal Karting

    Apr 30, 2015
    59
    Parkland, FL
    Full Name:
    Dennis Palumbo
    The oil was filled to spec - the problem, as it turned out, was fuel related - thanks.
     
  11. afwrench

    afwrench Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2004
    593
    NY
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Dennis, please let us know what the specific problem was.Could help with a future diagnosis for someone. Mike
     
  12. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    14,500
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    yes, 599's are hard to get the level right Oil + Petronas additive... to me its crazy you have to check the oil very hot to get a good reading. poor design ... or attempt to make dealer fees? i the former vs. latter.
     
  13. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    14,500
    Atlanta
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    Tom Spiro
    shop should pay for Sparkplugs...in my opinion. if its fuel issues - how did that occur all of a sudden?
     
  14. EP328

    EP328 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2008
    616
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Ed
    Interesting the fuel rail and injectors are so dirty after such low mileage? Perhaps the car was not driven enough? Detergent gasoline needs to flow in order to do its job.
     
  15. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    The guys at Competizione tell me if you are not racing the car, they do not use oil. Ever since they told me this I've stop revving the car at 6,000 rpm for two whole minutes to check the oil. It's always fine, I don't race my car.
     
  16. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,344
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Are you being serious...6k rpm for 2 minutes to check the oil? Please tell me you are joking
     
  17. denfpal

    denfpal Karting

    Apr 30, 2015
    59
    Parkland, FL
    Full Name:
    Dennis Palumbo
    Apparently, the fuel rail and injectors (especially 2 of them) were gunked-up and clogged, which was causing the engine to misfire. The car is almost 13 years old and during the past 2-3 years I have only driven it about 1,000 miles - total miles are just under 10k. Fuel sample taken from the rail had a brownish substance in it that looked (when swirled around in a small beaker of gas) like very finely ground pepper. Don't know why this happened...it's probably my fault for not driving enough. My car has had some fuel related issues in the recent past. About 2 years ago both fuel pumps died and were replaced. There is no fuel filter in the 599 - only a screen before the fuel pumps. After this fix, I will make it a point to drive the car more frequently. Is there a good additive that can be added to the gas, from time to time, to help keep the fuel system clean and lubricated. Is it OK to occasionally use some Marvel Mystery Oil and/or Lucas Fuel Injector Cleaner in 599 - or does F recommend their own special gas additive - or should additives not be used period? I always keep the gas tank filled and have been using Shell V-Power. Regarding the engine oil, my car has never burned/used any between major services, and the inside of the exhaust tips are normal in color (not black/sooty looking) indicating a clean burn.
     
    Texas Forever likes this.
  18. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    14,500
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    Thomas at FOA was telling me the same thing that in order to get the right temp, the process is to warm the engine up with progressive bursts up to 5-6K and hold stead RPM. I thought that sounded crazy but I do believe Thomas and Wade at Merlin as well.
     
    Texas Forever likes this.
  19. gsholz

    gsholz Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2006
    319
    Oregon
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    #19 gsholz, Aug 28, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
    Don't rev engine > 4000 rpm until the oil is at least 150 deg F. Here is the recommended way to check oil level in 599. It clearly states to let the engine warm up at idle.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Read the manual, I said 6k it's actually 4k but it still is a lot just to check the oil.
     
  21. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

     
  22. Redneck Slim

    Redneck Slim Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 10, 2011
    1,440
    Palo Alto,CA,USA
    Full Name:
    Walt Kimball
    The 2007 Owner's Manual says to simply let the engine idle for "some minutes" with oil temperature above 185-194 F,then shut off the engine and check.
     
  23. PFSEX

    PFSEX Formula Junior

    Jun 30, 2006
    843
    Las Vegas
    Full Name:
    John Ratto
    4K english = 6K metric
     
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  24. JohnnyRay

    JohnnyRay F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2014
    2,863
    Central FL/NW WI
    Try to use only non-ethanol premium or perhaps even racing gas. Both will store well for longer periods. Non-ethanol premium is a bit hard to find in Florida, but WaWa stations pretty much all have it. makes a big difference.
     
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  25. 020147

    020147 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2006
    3,647
    Midwest
    Ethanol free is the way to go along with more regular use. I’ve got to burn two year old gas out of the ski boat this year. It’s only ever had ethanol free in the tank with stabilizer. I’m pushing it at the 2 year mark and it’s no high revving Ferrari V12, but it’s still running just fine.

     

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