Or it is sticking and not fully opening. If it warms up normally, it is likely sticking and not fully opening. BUT, same problem overall.
Change the thermostat. I’m an old guy also, the car is “relatively” simple to work on. Take your time. Access panel for someone that has never done it 45 min. Otherwise pay someone to do it and stop looking for a more complex problem if one of the most “simple” things hasn’t been ruled out. Anyway You will have access to the answer. Boil new and old thermostat and see if there is a difference. I bet there is. If this fails to solve the problem then start looking for more esoteric issues. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Access cover is off - waiting for parts before draining coolant! parts are scheduled for delivery by Sat - hope to get the car on the road again Monday! will take pictures and keep this thread updated.
This is my water temp on a hot day, after being driven hard. is this normal, low or high? right side fan blows out the to the right from the lower bumper left side fan blows onto the front tire from inside the fender liner are they supposed to blow out exhaust in different ways? Image Unavailable, Please Login
Update - would like to thank everyone who responded and for the advice. Revived the old thermostat today and tested it in a pot of water - well it never opened even as the water boiled. I installed the new thermostat that arrived yesterday. Airlift the system and add fresh coolant. Started the car and when it warmed up and the gauge read about 180 - 185F the fan started to cycle. The temp gauge no longer rises to 210+. to get the fan to cycle. I ran the car for about 20 minutes in the garage temp was 75F no leaks fan continued to cycle temp never rose about 185F -things are looking up! looks like the problem is solved - will take the car out tomorrow for a road test to make sure. I did run into an issue with the new lower O ring sent by Ricambi - it seems it is not the right one. There is another thread that had the same issue. I could not get a seal with the new one, so I reused the old one that was thicker and more playable. I also replaced the hex head screws with new ones since they were partially stripped. I am really surprised that the did not over heat just ran hot.
the thermostat, I think, like an oil solenoid, never actually seal off the coolant water-tight. so it does leak some coolant into the circulation even if it is closed, hence the ability to let your car cool, to a point, of course.
That is how mine is too. Funny thing was last year the left fan seized and I had to replace it. After finishing the job (a real pia even with the bumper off) I questioned my installation because of this fan exhaust flow characteristic. I had to remove the wheel and inner fender cover again to double check the electrical plug in case I had somehow reversed it and the fan had become a pusher, lol. NOTE: I believe because of the excellent cooling I am getting from my system the left fan does not see much duty and so it seized. The right side remains strong. Consequently I have a jumper wire across the 85 Terminals of both relays so both fans run when called upon. The logic from the switch remains the same. If the temp should rise to require the left side it will spool up also. TESTED
I don't wish to rain on your parade, however, long tern use of jumper wires across relays, or fuses for that matter, is not good practice. Although I particularly hate having to replace a failed part for the second time, I trust you will find a better solution that using a jumper wire for a fan that seizes from presumably low usage. Good luck.
After a spirited test drive this morning on some really great back roads - temp never got any warmer - and yes my right fan is the only one running a testament to how good the cooling system operates with a good thermostat. NOTE: the left fan will only go on if the temp in the radiator reaches 97C or around 206F - Also when the right fan runs alone its at a high speed and slows when the left side turns on. Image Unavailable, Please Login
J Jumper wires are fine across relays. Used for logic issues and done industrially all the time. Want to reverse? pull wire. Of course you must know what you are doing. Jumper wire across a fuse is a whole new matter. Don't mix the two
If you examine the coolant flow diagram for the 360 you see that it was not the most efficient design. The cooling circuit is uneven and one radiator gets heat soaked and one fan does triple duty while the other stays idle. One circuit gets cooled and the other remains hot and that hot coolant is returned to the suction of the pump with no change in temperature. Also the placement of the rad fan switch was designed differently than Porsche, BMW and Mercedes. Theirs are at the bottom of the radiator just before the cooled coolant is returned to the engine or close to the suction of the water pump. The other designs allows for air cooling (across the radiator) and the radiator fan. The cooled water migrates to the bottom of the rad and that decides how the fan is called to duty. The way the 360 was designed causes the fan to operate more than it should. By having both fans operate at slow speed at the first cycle keeps the coolant returning to the engine to be cooler than with only one fan running. No, I am not an automotive engineer and I am sure that I am no smarter than the designers that designed the car. However, I have been a Chem Engineer who worked in a Nuke Plant for 39 years and I know a thing or two about cooling, efficiency and a bit more. Above is my opinion and this is how my car is set up. Took 5 mins with only a 5" piece of wire to accomplish. Takes 2 mins to reverse. Flame suit on. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Another great explanation by Hessank - I have to admit the design is a little strange having only one fan do most of the work. Based on the drawing I could see where returning water could be hotter since only one fan is running. it would make sense based on the drawing to have both fan run more efficient cooling. That being said I noticed after a spirited drive that the right fan came on and stayed on for a while - temp gauge did not clime! I agree with Hessank the system should turn both fans on low speed and then as the system got hotter (if it got hotter) would speed up one or both fans. As far as the sensor goes its measuring water temp entering the radiator most cars I have worked on the sensor is mid way or near the bottom.
To save me some time, which fan is doing the work for the AC system? Would this explain the low duty cycle on the left side fan. As to your relay bypass, are you going to keep this modification? Given your work experience, do you think that this would be a worthwhile improvement in any 360, particularly a vehicle used in a region that gets real hot during the summer... like the desert Southwest. Is there a better way to get the fan action you desire, i.e., both fans working at lower RPM until demand requires high speed?
Right side of the car has the condenser so when you put the AC on the right fan will run at a high speed. Not sure if the right fan will return to low speed if the sensor in the radiator gets over 97C and the AC is on . At 97C both fans run at a lower speed no AC. The left fan will turn off at 92C The right fan will turn on at 92C and turn off at 87C and run at high speed in that temp range.
Hessank - can you repost the really jumper to get both fans to turn on? Also when thermostatic switch call for the first fan does it run through same really circuit ? the right fan will run at a high speed ? it is easy to change the pins on the temp sensor in the radiator to call for both fans then turn first then put the right one on high speed if temp > 97C
Should I point out that all of this 'make both fans work' is really engineering something that isn't a problem? In fact, linking the two takes out redundancy from the system so you would be more susceptible to problems from a single failure. As it is, when one fan fails the other take up the slack. Link them and a failure leaves you overheated by the side of the road, or worse.
Not sure I totally agree John. So let's leave it at that. I did suffer a failure when the left fan failed to run because it was seized beyond repair. So at idle, with the AC on the temp was climbing too high to the point of overheating. All I had to do was to turn the AC off and drive slower. My top was down at the time and I was in Quebec City, 8 hours from home. Your "engineering something that isn't a problem" and the "you would be more susceptible to problems from a single failure" would occur ONLY if both fans fail at the same time. I don't expect both fans to fail at the same time, so I should always have at least one, maintaining some form of redundancy. Without the AC the right fan is quite capable to hold its own. If it failed the left fan will operate as it should. No different. Neil wrote, "Also when thermostatic switch call for the first fan does it run through same really circuit ? the right fan will run at a high speed ?" This mod does NOT change the logic of the rad switch. The first signal from the rad switch (at 92 degrees) sends a ground signal to the #85 terminal of the passenger (right side) relay that causes the relay to energize and send +12v to the fan motor. All the jumper wire does is connect the left or driver's side relay #85 terminal so both fans run and shut off at 87 degrees. NO change in logic. Put the AC on, and it operates the same except with a balanced form of cooling using both rads. If the temp does increase past 97 degrees then the switch will send a ground signal to the driver's side relay and ...., well you get the picture. Consequently, in my opinion it provides a more balanced and cooler return flow to the engine. Look at the flow diagram it is not rocket science to see one side is doing nothing. That was poor engineering. I like my car running between the 190 - 200 degree range on hot days with both fans on duty. With the cooler water returning to the engine it also reduces the electrical load with less cycling of the single fan. But like I said, this is in my opinion. YOMD.
Nice to see you have it sorted, the idea i saw that was missing was to run a cleaning fluid through the engine and radiators, after 20 plus years you will have sludge in the system regardless of the fancy coolant.
So thermodynamic “equilibrium” in traffic is dictated by the fan switch/fans running and cooling both rads equally but equilibrium on the highway (where there is a ton of air through the radiator) is dictated by the thermostat.
