Future classic?

I mean that it was impossible to imagine Ferrari would offer so many to the market of their latest ‘special version’. New rule, if it’s not limited by number, Ferrari will (rightly) produce as many as they can before the replacement model. It also seems, based on the SF90’s Assetto Fiorano, that a track pack will become available from the outset so that Ferrari can earlier capitalize on the demand for such versions.

 

Absolutly, it s the direct consequences of the IPO, unfortunatly .

 

At launch, I really didn't like the styling...no way, no interest.

I have read some reviews...man man...pfffff...this seems, no this is a really mindblowing (if not best!) Ferrari ever produced...

It sort of regained my interest...and I seem to dig the styling more than before. It looks (feels?) special...far more mean than an F8...actually more LaFerrari than F8...

And...at its price...very reasonable with taking looks, performance, specs and exclusivity into account. The EV part saves a ton of money (100000USD) on pollution/luxury tax vs an 812 on where I live...so it is similar in price vs an 812.

It makes me thinking...

 

I too, am a young grasshopper at 30 and have developed a love for the 90s to early 2000s cars. After that I've honestly lost interest. While the 90s cars can't compete with the current ones on a track, it is far more satisfying feeling that analog feel and being able to use the whole powerband on the road, without nannies to drive the car for you. The markets on many analog cars speak volumes of their collectibility. In 20 years all cars will be electric and decimate all of the hybrid cars of today. Considering that, what will the appeal of the hybrids be? Performance figures are constantly changing so to be a collectible, a car will have to bring more than performance to the table.

 

Well said. What will hybrids bring to the table? For one- they still use an ICE. Therefore, they still have sound.

They will always be important- as part of the lineage to the future. As you pointed out, future cars will always be faster- that hasn’t held back the older cars which were also made in smaller numbers which explains their increasing value.

The question for me is- are they entertaining to drive? If so- they always be desirable. The early reviews for the SF90 are unanimous in this regard.

Looks are always subjective- and never unanimous. Ignore the haters as they almost always represent the minority.

 

They certainly still have the workings of the basic car, but I think the concern would be if it has been watered down to make way for the hybrid system. An example would be that a twin turbo v8 can generally make more power than an NA V12. I personally prefer the scream of that v12. That is a big thing for me. I have not driven this car so I am kind of shooting from the hip, but I can't help but wonder if some engagement has been sacrificed for performance. Perhaps if they have found other ways to make the car more engaging despite those sacrifices I could see it becoming a classic, but otherwise I have my doubts.

 

If the SF 90 becomes a classic i become a priest !

 

Good luck with that!

 

Classics are never obvious when they first appear. If it was obvious they would all sell in higher numbers. They only sold 126/7 F1’s. Why wasn’t that obvious? Now worth $20 million more than cost. That’s an extreme- but the point is the same.

if this sells poorly- it has a better chance later to appreciate- and be appreciated.

They sold approximately 6,000 Pistas ($400,00- $500k). A great car- yet turbocharged and a derivative of a regular production model that is largely dissed (488).

The SF90 is a unique model that sells for $100k+ more than a Pista or 812 GTS whose performance rivals all hyper cars at price points 2-4x higher.

I’ll take my chances. And please keep panning the car- It will be that much more special.

 

But then who will accept your confessions?

 

Greta Thunderbird?

 

If obsolescence is a prerequisite for "classic" status, SF90 will be classic within 2 years.

 

How dare you...

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And everything preceding it is already obsolete. Don’t ever buy another car- you have finally figured out that technology advances. It’s a scheme to trick us into buying a new car. Why do we keep falling for this trick?

 

I agree. For some people like @RotKopf, it has been going downhill ever since the invention of the lightbulb.

Hybrids may be a stop gap to an all electric future. But if the performance keeps getting better (better batteries, lower weight etc), the next generation of ferraristi won't care a bit for the old tech.

 

Hybrids correct the deficiency of low end torque with ICEs. ICE correct the deficiencies of Electric motors which lose power at higher speeds and batteries deplete quickly. In other words- hybrids may be the optimal performance package for quite some time.

Ferraris are collectible because of their long history and the emotions and passion their cars generate. Even the least desirable Ferrari’s are coveted.

 

Watered down? Engagement?

“...All this complexity delivers a compellingly simple outcome: The fastest Ferrari road car ever made is also among the most usable. Performance is staggering. While it's hard not to be impressed by a 2.5-second zero-to-62-mph claim that's likely on the conservative side, that only tells a small part of the story. Ferrari says the SF90 can haul itself from rest to 124 mph in just 6.7 seconds. The Stradale does this in exactly the way you'd expect a range-topping Ferrari to, with acceleration that borders on painful and a soundtrack that would sell out La Scala. Responses are so quick and the quantity of thrust so high that flooring it feels like a genuine achievement; holding it there for more than a second on any of the Modenese hill roads we flogged the car on was impossible. It is like a Superbike, a straight-canceling machine.

While the straight-line speed tests your bravery, the handling is remarkably docile for a range-topping Ferrari. The once-top-dog LaFerrari had handling that was as exciting as a firefight and only slightly less risky. But the SF90's all-wheel-drive system manages to deliver near flawless traction, even under the sort of loadings and provocation that would normally run the substantial risk of tears and insurance paperwork. The SF90 is 529 pounds heavier than the F8 Tributo, according to Ferrari, but those extra pounds don't make it feel any less responsive to directional changes, and the stability and control were impressive over rough roads.

...There are many great Ferraris, but this could well be the best one.”

Caranddriver

 

Owners believe modern Ferrari's have no deficiency in power. By comparison they are lighter, cheaper, cooler, simpler, more reliable, sound magnificent and are subjectively more beautiful. To sell your theory to these owners that hybrid speed conquerors all will fail. And then fail again as the pure electric car's performance devastates the hybrid numbers. Hybrid is stop gap only sales experiment and the farthest concept from a Ferrari classic.

 

I get all that. I get that it's performance is almost unparalleled for it's price range. It is an incredible feat right now. But eventually this amazing new technology will be phased out by newer technology and it will be obsolete. Once this car's performance becomes obsolete (there are already near 2000hp electric cars) over the next 20 years, what will it bring to the table? It won't have that analog fun that classics and even modern classics have. It won't have top notch performance in 20 years since it will be outdone. My argument is, unless some new regulations come out limiting the power of road cars, what will make this car so special in 20 years?

 

Of course we can’t know the answer. It’s no different for any car when it’s first introduced. And you just made a case. What if they started limiting performance output? Just one of many ways everything can change.

 

By definition- Every new car is the farthest from a classic when new. A Ferrari Dino was panned for decades. Now it’s a classic. LOL

No one knows the future- and therefore no one will know how this will be judged in time. Today- You and I do not know how entertaining the car is or isn’t. We only have a limited number of RAVE reviews.

We do know that a number of hybrid hyper cars were instant hits and worth far more than they originally cost (and still trading at a premium)- indicating that the technology is desirable and that there is a marketplace for such technology.

Every car ever made has been leap frogged- obviously not a relevant case for desirability or collectibility. A better question is what does it represent in the context of time reflecting past, present, and future. A known unknown- which can only be answered in time- likely decades from now.

No one should be buying new cars as an investment- even though some work out that way. It’s a fool’s errand. If one buys these for the pleasure they provide- you always come out ahead in the end.

 

Isn’t it possible, even likely, that the way our generation views 20 year old cars today is the same as the current generation will view this car 20 years from now? Given what will likely be mainstream in 20 years ... doesn’t it make sense that in 2040 enthusiasts will view a 20 year old hybrid super car similarly? The same way we long for the sheer simplicity (relatively speaking) of a 360 Modena with three pedals ... might this high tech wonder of an SF90 seem just as simple then compared to the flying electric saucer cars we’ll have in 2040?


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The biggest jump will be between hybrids and fully electric with no ICE at all, so current cars could very well be seen as the last of a very very long breed

 

Agreed. In 20 years roads we see today will be much different by then.
There will be no noise or pollution. There will be no signal of any since cars will communicate each other.
Cars with no connectivity will be impossible to drive on the road by then.
And possiblely roads will be much narrower and reused for other purposes since there will be no traffic so to speak.
Cars we drive today only can be driven at the track.

It seems a bit extreme but it is happening now. Tech is moving vastly forward. Enjoy while we can and dont think too far what becomes classic. Good cars will be recognised.

It is like iPhone. Only 10 some years passed since its launch and everything has changed. ICE will be gone unless there are break through in tech. My only hope is small simple v12 for sound and charge only hybrid.


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Idea, current number of cars in use worldwide:

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and in Europe, close to 300 million vehicles in-use..
https://www.acea.be/statistics/article/vehicles-in-use-europe-2017

Without some amazing leaps forward, in 20 years time, the total number of pure EV cars produced annually will be far less than current demand levels (close to 80 million units per year) so the future above will never occur. Not to mention replacing all currently in use, never is the word.

Instead, the EU's actual plan is quite different, it won't matter how many pure EV cars are produced, the ultimate goal is severe reduction of personal transportation options, instead forcing EU subjects (will no longer be citizens, and that is rapidly occurring now) to walk, bike or use public transportation.

https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport_en

https://www.eea.europa.eu/highlights/walking-cycling-and-public-transport

https://www.masstransitmag.com/management/article/21133727/emerging-practices-in-low-emission-zones-throughout-europe

and many more, that's the actual direction the bureaucrats are championing...