Pagid RSL1 pads initial review and impressions.

Hi all

So yesterday I got time to bed in the Pagid RSL1 pads on the 488 with Surface Transforms discs.

Here's a brief overview of what has been done to the brakes just so that it is crystal clear what is stock and what is not.

Surface Transforms CCST discs
Pagid RSL1 Endurance race pads
Castrol React SRF brake fluid
HEL Performance braided PTFE brake likes

I will start by giving a quick summary of that OE pads in the above configuration, just to make it clear what differences the RSL1 pads made. While the braking system is upgraded, OE pads are still OE pads, and even despite the upgrades, there are of course an OE resemblance when using OE pads.

I have earlier talked a lot about what differences the CCST discs made, so what I write here, is targeted towards to OE pads. With the CCST discs, the OE pads worked well on both track and street, but with the limitations naturally inherent in the OE pads. When running OE pads with CCST discs, noise is dramatically reduced, but I found that they still did make a bit of noise occasionally. Not much, but not dead silent. For this RSC1 pads is needed. Anyway, noise was still vastly improved compared to OE discs. I have written a lot about the modulation benefits of the discs without the fluid and line upgrade in my first CCST review, so please go back to that for my impressions on this subject - but in short, much better.

One thing that don't really change with OE pads, is how they fade. Even with CCST discs, when pushed hard, during a longer track session or repeated fast stops, they do start to fade. No disc in the world will change this as it is just the nature of the OE pads in high heat. It's not like they stop working, not by a long shot, but during a track session, they do need increasing effort to give the same performance and they don't feel consistent. With heated Michelin Cup 2 tyres, or even with MPS4S tyres, the OE pad is what causes the friction limit. When applying full brake and the ABS kicks in, it is clear that the ABS does not have to work incredibly hard to keep the wheels spinning. There's an initial chirp from the tyres, but after that the wheels keep rotating and all you feel is the vibration in the pedal - a very undramatic stop with little tyre noise. This is not a bad thing, but rather just the nature of the limits of the OE pads.
The OE pads have their limits in another area. We all know how they fell when they are cold and start driving - there they are not very impressive. When cold, even CCST discs can't save them. They are just dead and don't offer much feel or performance. So in summary, the OE pads are more quiet than with OE discs, have better power and modulation when hot, similar to OE when cold and live a bit longer due to lower running temps. Loss of friction when hot stays fairly unchanged, but this is not a surprise as this is a function of the pad more than the disc.

On to the RSL1...

So some might wonder why the RSL1? The answer is simple really. Was looking for RSC2 pads for a car with OE discs, but they are discontinued. So after talking to Michael Breitenbach from Pagid, he suggested to RSL1 endurance racing pad as recent tests have proven this to be a superb combo. The fist cars that were tested with the CCST and RSL1 combo, was the Ford GT-R cars, and it proved to be a great match.
I won't dive too much into the RSC2 and CCST pad combo as I did not spend that much time with it, but it was a good combo for sure - quiet and smooth.

Why the RSL1 pads over RSC1 or OE pads? Once you try a really great brake setup, it is hard to go back and everything else will seem off. Porsche does tis really well, and their OE discs with race pads is a winning combination. When one has tried this, it becomes readily apparent what the Ferrari OE pads and street pads lack. Do you only drive on the street, RSC1 is still a good pad, but not very exciting and temperature consistent. I was told by Pagid that in conjunction with the CCST discs, the RSL1 would be about as comfortable as the RSC2 pads. This has so far turned out to hold true, sort of. There is a change in one area, and that is noise. After bedding in, they have shown their racing side in this area, but far from in a horrible way. When I say noise, it's not like they are howling like a banshee. All they do is give a small chirp when the car comes to a full stop. OE pads and OE discs are both louder and do it for a longer duration. This is not a loud squeal, just a chirp for a second or two when the car fully stops. When you apply brake at speeds above ´5-10 km/h there's nothing, and not all stops cause the chirp either. It is just a small noise on some slow stops. If you ever get to chance to hear a Challenge car running Brembo race pads, you get an idea about how insanely loud and squealing race pads can be. Many also scour a bit or give a grinding noise. Nothing of this was present during normal driving or fast stops. In these conditions there were dead quiet and smooth.

How about performance? Holy crap these are good!
Let's start from cold bedding, and just work our forward. Bedding in took some work, but it was not a problem. They are very hard pads so speed and repeated stops is needed. It took about 10 stops from 180-200 km/h to get them fully bedded. But even prior to bedding, they had really good bite on par with cold bedded OE pads, so it's not like you start by getting out on new pads and have no brakes. So the bedding went as follows.
15-20 soft stops from about 150 km/h to about 80 km/h
10 stops from 180+ km/h to about 60 km/h
Cool down
Soft stops during drive home to clean everything up.

After bedding when cold, they offer a bite that is on par with bedded OE pads that are up to temp. In other words, they are "on" from the get-go - but it gets better.
After bedding in, I did a few stops to really see if I could get them to show a weakness. I did some repeaded stops from about 230-240 km/h to about 15 km/h with full throttle in between, and I could not get them to complain or show any weakness. This I have tried with OE pads, and they cannot cope with that and really start to fade. With the RSL1, the pedal feel did not change at all. No matter what I did to abuse them, the pedal and pad feel stayed consistent. It was as tight warm as it was cold - which is something I have never experienced before.

The modulation is really nice with some initial pedal travel as to not get that annoying on/off Ferrari brake brake feel which I absolutely hate as it completely ruins modulation and connection with the brake. But this combo is very easy to modulate and very much on point, and it makes for a very confident inspiring setup. The more confident you are in your brakes, the harder you can push and the deeper you can go.

From a general comfort standpoint they are super nice and smooth. No grinding, no vibration or the like. You simply glide to a nice stop when needed be on the street, and they will make your eyes pop out when you mash it. All of it very undramatic from a comfort standpoint, but when you push them, it is anything but without drama. Drama can be good and bad, this is the good kind. It is not dramatic because it is unsettling or the like, it is dramatic because it is violent a bit like very hard launches.

When you really lay into them, you start realizing that the pads are no longer what is on the limit. In my case, the limit was the heated Cup 2 shoes. You would need a seriously sticky race tyre to keep up with these pads. When you apply full ABS type brake force, you realize that the pads are more than capable of locking up the tyres. Don't worry, the ABS does its job, but you can hear the tyres working hard. This is nice and a very cool feeling of a system that is capable of utilizing the full grip of the tyre. During these extreme stops, the front wheels never stop rotating and never lose grip, but the noise from them lets you know that the brakes mean business. The drama comes from the force the brakes apply to your body. As many of you know, the belt tensioner will tighten down once you brake, and how much they do this is directly related to the g-force the system measures. When I did the stops from 230+ I had to unclip the belt to release the belt and it was borderline crushing. They stopped so hard that the tensioner tightened up in a way I have never experienced before. Very cool and impressive.

So all in all I think these are awesome pads and I can't wait to get them on track. Hopefully I will get on track on the 29th. so will follow this up after a track session. But even as a street pad, they are very good.

Some have asked about my thoughts on these pads with OE discs. I have not tried it, so I don't know. Pagid says it will work well, so I take their word on face value as the RSL1 did for me what I was told. I would think that they are more noisy in conjunction with the CCM rotors as that is just their nature. But for any of my fellow track rats, I think they are worth a try.

Stay healthy all and have a great weekend

 

Price wise, both discs and pads are cheaper than OE. I'm in Europe, so that's my point of reference.

Here's now it brakes down.

Eurospares sells a complete set of OE discs for 11352,90 £ including shipping and VAT. By comparison, a set of ST discs have a list price of of 10800 £ inclusind VAT and shipping. Additionally, Craig Couzens who's the Marketing Manager for ST has informed me that he will offer special deals for FChat members. So while I cannot say exactly what the price will be, it will be below 10k £ all included. I did a lot of work and stuff with the 488 fitting, so that feflected on my price obvisouly, so that's not a real point of reference. But I'd say a set of CCST here in Europe is between 1500-2000 £ cheaper than OE discs, I'd suggest that even people in the US contact Craig and work it out with him. There is an official ST distributor in the US and Craig can work with them for deals. So all in all, I'm quite sure that the ST discs will be equally cheap in the US compared to OE. Come time to refurb a worn ST disc, the price here in Europe for a full set is 1200 £. That's roughly a tenth of a set of OE discs and it can be done four times so there's a lot of life in a set of ST discs.

Price for RSL1 and RSC1 pads goes as follows.

If you order a set of OE pads from say Scuderia Car Parts, you get a full set of OE pads for 2470,66 € insluding VAT and shipping.
If you order a set of RSL1 pads from Pagid here in Europe, price is about 1700 € delivered with VAT.
RSC1 pads are slightly more expensive than RSL1, so about 1850-1900 € for a set.

I don't know how pad pricing translate to US prices, so I'd suggest contacting Michael Breitenbach and have him either ship the pads for forward you to a US dealer. I know Vivid Racing sells Pagids, but I'm not so sure they are competitively priced.

Now these OE prices are of course if you leave the Ferrari dealer out of the equation. If you factor in their prices, things really start getting interesting. People are paying as much as 25000-30000 Euro for full disc and pad replacements which is just borderline criminal.

 

Start by running it with what it comes with. I see little point in replacing new components when you don't track. Once your pads are worn, then consider how you run the car and what your needs are. Here RSC1 pads are a good option for street only driving. They are very OE like, but still an upgrade.

If anything on a new car, HEL brake lines to replace the stock rubber lines. Then do fluid right away as the car needs a flush when the new lines are installed. Some might think the lines are overkill, but of all the things one can do to a car, it is one of the best but also one of the cheapest. I will neer understand why they use such lines on these cars. Fact is that over time, those rubber lines really don't like the high heat from the discs, and the rubber lines also aide in getting moisture in the fluid.

Once your discs are getting close to needing replacements, consider what you want to do with the CCST stuff.

 

You need to order a custom set. I can't remember off the top of my head if you need M10 or M12 fitting, but when I know I'll let you know.

What you need is four identical lines of 37 cm total length and a female fitting in each end. Quite sure it's an M12, but let me check next week.

 

Isn't that the point of our forum?

 

Just wanted to add the pics of the pads in the calipers. They kinda fit the review

Doubt theyvwillbstay yellow long lol. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

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It's an awesome combo.

Car has 26000 km on it, and at least 10k of those are track. Only thing I have found a few weeks ago, is that the front rubber bushes are starting to deteriorate due to heat from the brakes. They will be changed as part of the spring prep.

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Let me get back to you . I've dealt with Ben and I'm currently trying to get him to get back to me.



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Or just tell him that you need four hoses that are 37 cm total length with the same style female fitting in both ends as he uses on the front hoses of their 458 lines.

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Just got an email from Ben. He will get back to me on Tuesday.

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Ben at HEL is now ready to receive orders for 488(F8(Pista lines.