Maranellos are disappearing

I thought it looked like a really nice car with a good history. Wonder what the reserve was...

 

Very early 575Ms were not available with modulars, not until around SN 130xxx. Easily added, though.

 

I love how much I learn on here! Before 21ATS told me, I had no idea there was a difference between the 575 modulars and 550 Barchetta wheels!

 

Re former owner: Trying to figure out if that’s a good thing, bad thing, or just a thing.

 

550 Barchetta wheels (actually 550 modular wheels introduced as a Scaglietti option in 97/98) can leak air through their seals, while 575M barrels do not have seals that hold air.

 

As it happens, I had lunch with a friend who works for an auction house yesterday and our discussion briefly touched on auction values for cars like these. I know that generally you only know the actual selling prices of cars that sell at auction so it is actual price data unlike asking prices. On the other hand, the question we discussed was how auction prices relate to "retail" prices. Covid notwithstanding, the majority of 550s and similar cars sell through dealers (or occasionally privately). I can't be the only person that, when I see something like a 550 at auction, is thinking why is it being auctioned and is there a story? You see the result of that sometimes when an auction car sells to a dealer who then lists it for sale themselves with an appropriate mark up. But generally a dealer ought to be better placed to make a judgement on an auction car than the average person.

I don't really know the answer to my own question because I don't think I'd be brave enough to bid on a car like a 550 at auction especially when the mainstream auction houses often give so little information (and not infrequently what they do give is less than totally accurate). At least the likes of Collectingcars give you a whole lot more photographs etc. and in the current circumstances seem like a more valid selling choice for a car without stories but even so it is a brave way to buy a car and I would have thought ought to be reflected in the price?

 

It is interesting. Auctions have certainly flourished in this new world state. On line ones particularly. It's been a perfect storm for Collecting Cars who happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Like you I would need a big brave pill to want to buy at auction, but I have bid on a few, actually before CV-19 kicked in and CC wasn't so mainstream. But my bidding stops at a level at which it's a worthwhile punt if there's something major wrong. I then generally sit there watching the price slowly rise to what I'd consider a retailer dealer value once you'd added the buyers comission. A bit of head scratching then follows.

I have all the completed Maranello's on my watch list on my CC account - the ones they haven't deleted that is - the Argento 575 bought by Justin Banks - that's been erased from the website. Also the Red 575 sold by KHPC, I can no longer find that. I spoke with James at KHPC about that sale (and the 612 they also sold on there) they were disappointed with the final sale price - but they did run through in the very early stages of lockdown when we were still in full panic mode. They said they'd not use CC again but had comitted those two cars to the site in the early stages of lockdown when eveyrthing was an unknown.

There certainly seems to be plenty of people like me wanting to buy a 550. KHPC (you've probably figured they are my dealer of choice by now) say they have far more buyers than cars - but they are finding it difficult to find cars for sale, I don't think I've ever seen them with so little stock on their website. I've always found KHPC provide reasonable values for both buyers and sellers, they tend to suggest prices at which cars would sell rather than headline numbers that are probably unachievable. I think that's actually working against them in the current climate as I mentioned a few posts back with the world of consignment sales with unrealistic asking prices and seeming no willingness to discuss offers.

The lovely Verde Zeltweg 550 (and you know I like a green 550 after I asked you if you'd sell yours) I got very close to buying just before we went into full lockdown was via KHPC - low owners, lovely condition, miles in the mid 20K's full history - asking price was £75K. I said yes at asking price, the owner was trading up to a 599, KHPC had put the deal together with the seller of the 599. He just got cold feet and backed out, which was irritating as we'd got to the point of KHPC arranging to collect it for a full PPI.

A quick browse through Pistonheads shows the current favoured asking price for a 550 is £89,995 no matter what miles/history/condition seem to be with some now well into 6 figures. I don't see any of them selling - you'll have all the stats of how long some of these have been for sale and it's years in some cases.

 

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2002-ferrari-575m-maranello-1

Wow. Sold for £47,250. That feels cheap to me. LHD, not low miles, but still...

 

I run my analysis every Sunday so, prompted by your post, I had a look at today's output for 550s.

Firstly, my standard extracts have only picked up twenty-one 550s currently for sale in the UK (excluding a race version).

Three of those have been for sale for more than a year. The longest has been listed for 177 weeks. That particular example was priced initially at £120k and is now listed at £89,995.

Of the remainder, eight have been listed for less than 10 weeks (one of which is listed for a forthcoming auction) and the rest between 10 weeks and a year.

As you rightly point out, eight of the cars are listed at £90k. Only two are below that.

 

I was watching that one and at no point did the reserve seem to be met. There was some odd bidding at the end and I'm also surprised to see it sell at that number as when the auction finished it appeared as though reserve hadn't been reached.

 

Do you keep a trend or average asking price graph?

 

I never understood selling a car at auction. My guess it has a lot of potential drawbacks for both the buyer and seller. The commission fees are often exorbitant for both the buyer and seller. At no reserve you better hope at least two practical buyers show up and arrive at the same auction. Buyers can forget having a thorough written PPI performed, by a marque specialist shop that checks the car for a multitude of issues.

Search the auctions and you can always find a special car that was sold for well under market prices, due to buyers not arriving at the auction. Sellers also make mistakes and list their car at the wrong type of auction and auction house. Why list your exotic with a notable muscle car auction. It happens !

Shill bidders ? I positively witnessed shill bidding on my used Pontiac Sunbird that failed to meet the $5500 reserve. Magically bid to $5400. After my car was auctioned I asked one of the workers in the pit, if I can speak to the last bidder. He immediately told me we never had a bid.


Choose a marque specialist broker and you can always push back from the table at your leisure, or end up happy with the results.

 

I was following a Diablo that ended at the same time. It showed as “ended” at £91,500. Then next time I checked it was still going... apparently it was sold at £98,000, although I’m fairly certain that wasn’t the final bid I saw on the site.

 

If a bid is placed in the last 2 minutes the auction is automatically extended for another 2 minutes to stop sniping bids at the end.

 

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Sorry- realise the Diablo post was a bit off topic!

 

Yeah that's odd. They have a habit of including the 6% buyer fee in the final price but even that doesn't add up.

 

No, I've never got round to it. I have all the data for every week going back to early 2016 when I started gathering it in this form. It is partly a question of what to plot since normally mileage, colour and LHD vs RHD have an influence on price (condition and other things too, of course, but that's much more subjective especially when looking at an advert).

 

Taking imaginary bids up to the reserve is deemed legitimate by most auction houses although I personally find it very dubious. Supposedly they will not do so beyond the reserve.

In any case, I would have thought that in any auction, online or live, it isn't that hard to get a mate to bid up your lot although you obviously take the risk that they end up as the final bidder if they go beyond reserve.

I agree with everything else you've said.

I guess the exceptions being some of the very rare high end cars where auction is the normal sales channel. But that is exactly what I was meaning about 550s where it isn't the normal means of selling.

 

I bought my Testarossa at auction. I got it for a very good price. Sold it through a dealer. Sold for a very good price. I haven’t yet sold a car at auction, but every buyer needs a seller. Sellers of manual 430s are doing very well at auction in the US currently. Meanwhile a manual 575 with high miles sold very well through Fchat a couple of weeks ago, at I would say around double the price of an equivalent F1. I guess if you rationalise too much, you also rationalise away the reason for owning an impractical low slung thirsty temperamental old Italian sports car.

 

Hello, just joined Fchat although been watching the discussion on here about my car. I have owned this car for last 7 years and loved every minute of my first Fcar ownership.

It is an interesting question posed on here regarding the use of an auction site. I had been watching CC for a few months and they seemed to be getting a good reputation and good prices. Also with current pandemic economy i was nervous to leave my car with a dealer on SOR for fear of business failing. However I always had a concern that an auction may discount a large buyer section who would not feel comfortable to buy from a dealer, price in substancial risk and worry there was 'a story'. Turns out my fears may have been well founded.

 

Thank you for posting - looks a nice car - out of interest what price point do you think your car should have sold at ?

 

It will be really interesting to see what this goes for (or if it indeed sells). "High" miles, slightly gappy service history and with a few cosmetic flaws...

 

Closest I can find that's actually sold on CC is the following car - similar mileage.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2000-ferrari-550-maranello

 

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1998-ferrari-550-maranello

SOLD - High bid £60,000 - (£63,600 incl bidders commission)

I still haven't figured out how the "absentee bids" work on this site, the final 15 minutes of bidding was quite odd.