No regular V12 coupe in production... First time ? What's next ? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

No regular V12 coupe in production... First time ? What's next ?

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso' started by dcmetro, Sep 15, 2020.

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  1. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,738
    4'762 Coupés produced at least.

    Marcel Massini
     
  2. Jljr

    Jljr Rookie

    Feb 25, 2018
    48
    Miami Beach
    Many thanks for this info.
     
  3. Tommy Boy

    Tommy Boy Karting

    Aug 27, 2020
    198
    Full Name:
    Thomas
    Only 1,000 SF's delivered in US?
     
  4. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2017
    864
    San Diego, CA
    much higher
     
  5. 456-boy

    456-boy Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2005
    1,972
    France
    Full Name:
    Victor
    My estimation is around 1100-1300 812SF (coupé) with US/Canada specs.
     
  6. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    Do tell, based on what? USA factory allocations and subsequent production (not including Canada) was literally half of expectations from introduction until the SF90 reveal in May 2019...and then orders dropped off a cliff (allocations remained available and unfilled, now allocations are almost impossible to obtain for the 812SF in USA and completely impossible in most the rest of the world). A quite short production run, and as compared to historical the USA would, at full clip, have received 600 or so per year, and at half that rate, even at 3 years production (which is generous as it was not 3 full years) is less than 1000...

    Marcel's post above indicates 4762 (worldwide), in a regular scenario the USA is about 30% (1428 or so), but, at half, well, under 800 and I rounded up to under a 1000.

    please provide what you have found, thank you
     
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  7. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
    1,160
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Barry K
    Using Marcel's data and the historical US distribution percentage makes sense. Plucking a multiplier of a half out of thin air does not, unless you have evidence.

    Available numbers in Europe (e.g UK) are consistent with the historical supply percentage for Marcel's figure. So UK is normally 10% of global production, and so 480 out of 4762 is in line. ( https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/ferrari_812_superfast_s-a ). So the usual story of Europe was oversupplied vs US because of incoming emissions regs doesn't hold up.

    So some actual evidence to support multiplying by half to get the number you want would be quite helpful :)
     
  8. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,738
    See post #43.

    Marcel Massini
     
  9. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    * China 812 production accelerated:
    https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/51658982

    * Europe registrations accelerated (see 2019 vs prior years)
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    * I directly spoke with 30% of Ferrari dealers in USA March-June 2019 and every single one commented their level of allocations for the 812 were 50% of expected, this suddenly changed after May 2019 (i.e. SF90 reveal)
     
  10. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    Very nice, I had not seen that yet, thank you for that detailed insight!

    My local dealer 2 months ago had alluded to their possibly being able to plead for an 812SF allocation but time was fleeting...seems it had already fled!
     
  11. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    Probably more Pistas will have been produced total than 812s.
     
  12. khal360

    khal360 Formula Junior

    Feb 17, 2005
    282
    Thanks for the info Marcel. What’s your best guesstimate for 812 GTS production over the roughly 2.5 years?
     
  13. Gianfranco341

    Gianfranco341 Karting

    Sep 12, 2017
    248
    Full Name:
    Gianfranco
    It is my opinion 812SF with a production time of 2,5 years will be one of less produced not limited or numbered model compared to all other 5 years production time models . I think that It has never happened before and this is due to new market plan with more and more models making a lot of confusion and cars depreciation. They are producing a lot of GTS at the moment and it will come the VS . They were not prepared to have a lack of allocations for SF and then a production stop . A new model is not ready because it was planned for 2022-2023. May be for number of cars produced , for probably the last NA 12V produced for a normal production car (limited or numbered productions have nothing to do with standard production ) will be better to keep it and see what will happen within 10 years
     
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  14. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,738
    After the first 812 SF was shown to the dealers on 1st December 2016 during the Finali Mondiali in Daytona/FL production started very early 2017 and lasted until July 2020 (plus 3 cars to be made in 2021). That is 3.5 years.
    It was publicly unveiled March 9, 2017, at the Geneva International Motor Show in Switzerland.

    Marcel Massini

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  15. Gianfranco341

    Gianfranco341 Karting

    Sep 12, 2017
    248
    Full Name:
    Gianfranco
    I can say this is not correct . 812 SF has been presented in Europe March 2017 and when I got my F12 ( 14th of September 2017) 812SF was not in production yet . First 812SF has been delivered December 2017 in Milan .
     
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  16. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 6, 2003
    24,957
    Las Vegas, NV
    Full Name:
    Ryan Alexander
    December 2017 delivery probably means that moulds, aluminum panels, tooling and parts production would have started long before that - your timeline doesn't conflict with what Marcel posted.
     
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  17. Gianfranco341

    Gianfranco341 Karting

    Sep 12, 2017
    248
    Full Name:
    Gianfranco
    I don’t care how long before it took to prepare . Delivery for 812sf was starting December 2017 and finished July -August 2020 . This is only what is important for production number . I doubt even all those cars has been produced in that limited time , but I have good friends there and I can ask them .
     
  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,738
    #68 Marcel Massini, Oct 15, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
    Let me give you some facts:
    Among the first few 812 Superfasts were chassis numbers 221707, 221708 and 221709. Thereafter followed at least five 812 SF with chassis numbers 222xxx.
    The two 812 Superfasts shown to the public at the March 2017 Geneva motor show had chassis numbers 223179 and 223366. That is already 1'472 chassis numbers later.
    On the 31st March 2017 chassis number 225231 was completed (not an 812 SF ). That is 3'524 chassis numbers later than 221707.
    I received my brand new F12 #228775 on the 18th September 2017 (delivery date). That number is 7'068 chassis numbers after 221707.
    In 2017 Ferrari produced 8'400 cars.

    Actual delivery dates mean nothing.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  19. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,738
    #69 Marcel Massini, Oct 15, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
    I was at the factory on the 12th September 2017.
    While there I saw a very large number of 812 Superfasts in production, including chassis number 231798.
    Photo here shows the 17-digit VIN number stamped in the passenger foot area.
    That is 10'091 cars after the first 812 SFs built (221707, etc.).

    Marcel Massini

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  20. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,738
    Here's some more 812 Superfast build information:
    230260, USA version, yellow, built 7 July 2017.
    230497, red, built 9 September 2017.
    231378, USA version, black, built 7 September 2017.
    231572, Japanese version, built 6 September 2017.
    231596, built for the Philippines, built 6 September 2017.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  21. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2017
    864
    San Diego, CA
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  22. Yellow355

    Yellow355 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2006
    55
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    Does anyone have any rendering of the LB/Spider yet?
     
  23. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 6, 2003
    24,957
    Las Vegas, NV
    Full Name:
    Ryan Alexander
    Does the factory do extra testing or shakedown on early engines and cars, when it's a new model?
     
  24. Gianfranco341

    Gianfranco341 Karting

    Sep 12, 2017
    248
    Full Name:
    Gianfranco
    Don’t worry . As a official owner of an812 SF brand new I asked officially the situation and as soon as they will give me a reply we will know the truth. I saw personally last F12 produced complete with all type of option . They sold it because you should wait some more time for an 812 sf . It was September 2017 . But the procedure is normal . F8 spider presented last september and they are starting to deliver some now . Serial number is a confusion because series are not related to a single model but to the total production for all models
     
  25. ForeverCar

    ForeverCar Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2017
    307
    @Gianfranco341 I am curious if you gotten straight answers from official communication before. From my own experience, I appreciate what @Marcel Massini does for the community and would trust his words over pretty much anything I can get via official channels. If I am a TOP tier client, maybe I would have different experience.
     
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