3x8 Production Numbers by Year of Manufacture

I have a question: a total of 2993 carbed Ferrari 308 GTB were produced (808 fiberglass and 2185 steel). No doubt about those figures (more or less). But dry sump engines production was just 1700 (more or less): does this mean that almost 1300 units of 308 GTB carbed cars were USA models with wet sump, that is more than 40% of the total production?

Thank you very much



ciao

 

If it helps,there were 211 RHD steel body carbs 308 GTB delivered to UK around 10% of the total.(plus i believe 155 Vetro.)All of them dry sump.

 

Not really mind boggling. It's typical of the differences between Germanic & Italian cultures.

 

#20583 here. Steel '76

Been trying to figure out how many like it were built. Thinking 120-200?

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

A table shared a few years back by Alberto, published in "Quattroruote" I believe, listed the US 308 GTB production by calendar year as:
1978: 150
1979: 120
1980: 180
Unfortunately, as you can see, we do not have figures for 1976 and 1977...but my GUESS (a guess...) is that for 1976 and 1977, it was probably more, as the GTS was not available yet. 250 to 300, probably??

Rgds

 

20211 Steel October 76 production

 

I seem to recall that I saw monthly GTB production figures in '76 were about 40 cars. I have seen evidence of '76 GTBs produced in Oct / Nov / Dec. So that would seem to indicate ~120 cars, which was the basis for the lower bound in my estimate.

I do seem to recall anecdotal evidence regarding pre-Oct '76 production GTBs..

Admittedly, at this point everything I have done is largely non-systematic.

 

Hi there neighbor!

 

And yet, according to the factory figures, it should not be possible...

Production figures were, in calendar years (= Jan 1st to Dec 31st)
1975: 26, all glass
1976: 644, all glass
1977: 963, of which 138 glass...

Funny, isn't it?

Rgds

 

A very difficult question, Alberto, as we don't have yet any precise numbers in the matter detailing wet sump/dry sump, and we are missing the production for some countries that do receive a sizeable number of Ferraris...so we cannot know the exact numbers, and we cannot cross-check...

What we know for sure (or "almost sure"), are the figures you published a few years ago from an italian magazine, "Quattroruote" (??) if my memory serves me well, for US cars (carbed) in 1978, 1979 and 1980: 450 cars with the WET sump engine.
To which you have to add the "100" US Vetroresinas and the - at least - 44 australian Vetroresinas, all also with the WET sump engine: about 150
450 + 150 (or so: there are probably a few more "Vetros" with wet sump engine, perhaps RHDs (?) the assembly number sequence for RHD goes over 210...but we must deduce 154 UK Vetros RHD (all dry sump) + 44 Australian Vetros RHD (Wet sump) is 194...)
is 600 that are accounted for and reasonably certain.

But what we are missing are: the US cars for 1977: the factory says that, in 1977, they built 963 GTBs, of which 138 were "Vetroresinas", which leaves us with 825 carbed steel cars; "about 350" of these MIGHT have been US cars.
600 + 350 is already 950 WET sump cars.

Then we are still missing one important country with WET sump engines, that is: Japan. I have NO figure whatsoever about the Japanese Ferrari market, but have been told that it was "significant", which might be 7 to 8% (??); that would be another 200 GTBs (??) all with WET sump engine (and probably Left Hand Drive, as the Japanese want LHD Ferraris):
950 + 200 is 1150 WET SUMP engines.

We are probably missing some other small markets here and there.
If we take into account the assembly number sequences for US cars, the highest known number is "950"; I cannot certify that there were 950 US GTBs build, nor do I know how were the Japanese GTBs numbered...but 950 + 44 (the Australian Vetro RHD with Wet sump engine) is already 1000; add to this the 200 (??) Japanese GTBs with Wet sump engine, you arrive at 1.200 cars with wet sump engine, and we do not have all the production figures.

That's only an estimation...if someone has more accurate numbers, by any means, please do chime in!

Rgds

 

Hi Bruno: thank you very much for your effort! I think you are very close, as it matches the dry sump engines built figure, that we know are around 1730 (and maybe a bunch of them were given to spare part service).

ciao

 

so this also means that 808 minus approx 150 is 650 Vetro cars with dry sump.
1730 minus 650 leaves 1080 engines ( of with approx 30 for service) is 1050 engines for steel 308 GTB. So the number of steel GTB's is with 1050 pretty low as well and almost as rare as a vertro one.

 

Well...taken the usual precautions, considering that we do NOT know things and numbers precisely, and we can only DEDUCE the breakdown...

What we DO know is that the assembly numbers for the RIGHT HAND DRIVE "vetros" goes up to "about 210", thanks to the effort of "Carl888"; does that mean that we ACTUALLY have 210 RHD vetros, well...
Nevertheless...
we know for sure that we have 154 RHD dry-sump vetros for the UK, and 44 RHD wet-sump for Australia, plus a possible/probable 12 others for which we do not know if these are wet sump or dry sump?
And 100 wet-sump US, that is: more or less: according to some research they might actually have been slightly more than 100, perhaps 105 or 106, who knows...

808 less 210 less 105 is 493. Leaving a small number for "not accounted for markets", let's say "about 475 LHD dry-sump vetros". Add to this the 154 UK RHD vetros, and then you have "about 625 dry sump vetros" more or less.
From this, and other deductions, you might arrive at 1050 dry sump steel carbed 308 GTB, yes...BUT...

BUT, and again BUT...This is only by deduction!

Trouble is, many mistakes have been done by deduction.

Example: the factory given production numbers for all carbed 308 GTBs has always been 2993, of which 808 vetroresinas. 2.993 less 808 leaves 2.185 carbed steel cars...but only by DEDUCTION. The factory never actually wrote that they produced "2.185" steel carbed cars.
When Gerald Roush published his article saying that they were actually 712 Vetroresinas, and not 808, some persons took the "2.185" above, which was only a deduction (2.993 les 808 equals 2.185), to say that they were actually 2.897 308GTB produced (2.185 plus 712 equals 2.897), even if the 2.185 was only a DEDUCTION, and the 712 was an error, as Roush himself admitted: he got confused by the "154" RHD for the U.K, thinking that it included ALL RHD variant, and so forgetting the Australian market cars, etc...

So...let's remain careful.

And actually, sometimes "rare" doesn't mean much; or doesn't mean "enough". The 328 GTB production is 1.344 cars; the F-40 is 1.315; yet, the value of the 328 GTB is nowhere near the F-40; the rarest of all 3x8 is the 208 GTB (2 litre engine, no turbo, 155 bhp) hut by far not the most sought after...

Rgds

 

20599 12/76 Steel
ROSS-BORDO 20-R-351(Paint)

 

Maybe I missed it but how many 85 euro Bs?

 

Not an easy question, and to be honest, I don't have the answer...

Not an easy question: at least for three reasons:

1. what do you mean by "85"? May I remind you that at this time, the concept of "Model Year" was not in force at Ferrari. The Factory production figures were always given by calendar year, that is: January the 1st to December 31st, period. Some countries used the concept of model year, but as far as Ferrari was concerned, it didn't apply; in the USA, it did for Ferraris, because one digit in the VIN was a letter that served as the "year designator", but in the rest of the world, it didn't.
So whereas the figures by model year can sometimes be found for the US, in the rest of the world the figures we have are by production year, i.e: calendar year.
2. what do you mean by "euro"? The factory had at least, to my knowledge, three different models for Europe: the "standard continental Europe", the "swiss" which had a few pecularities such as different gear ratios, muted exhaust, etc...and the "U.K RHD" which was the same as the "standard continental" except that the driver's position was reversed.
(As an aside, it must be said here again that Ferraris built specifically by the factory for the Japanese market were more or less the same as U.S cars, that is to say that they were LEFT HAND DRIVE, even if the Japanese drive on the left side of the road as the british do.)
3. Ferrari usually didn't publish the breakdown of cars by market version, even if some italian magazines were able to print it from time to time; but nothing in the "official" litterature from the factory. We depend on the importers, but actually none published anything, so...except "Maranello Concessionaires" in the U.K, which did publish the numbers.

O.K, enough said. Your answer now: factory production figure for the 308 GTB "Quattrovalvole" during the calendar year 1985 is 201. That figure is official.
That's all I have, I don't have the break down market by market.
Can why try a "ballpark"? Let's say deduce 15 for the US, 15 for the UK, 15 for Switzerland, 10 for Japan; "about 145 cars" for the "standard continental euro" GTBs built in 1985.

Rgds

 

Bruno, what we do know for absolute fact is Ferrari lies about production numbers and always has. They have been caught so many times they have quit being embarrassed by it.

It is THE reason so many of us track some model or other. Ferrari information cannot be relied upon.

 

Brian,
we know we can't find help from the factory but could be from importer or archives importer. Does some have number of Ferrari ( Model, years or others ) which are imported and/or sold new in USA and/or North America ?

 

In our case the importer and the factory are the same. Different parts of the same company. That information does exist with some governmental agencies. and that information is shared for various reasons with other groups.

 

I guess for a complete answer I need to borrow one from Marcel Massini.
From time to time I am fortunate enough to be following a truck when a box of Ferrari records falls off. I invariably try and return them but seldom have any luck in doing so.

 

Now, that is funny! Good one...
John

 

I need to ad another comment to this. Any Ferrari dealer world wide can buy directly from Ferrari a car not made for their market area. By that I mean we bought BBi"s, 400's, 412's and GTO's direct from Ferrari in Italy. Many dealers around the world have bought US market cars for their clients. One small ME country has smog and safety laws patterned after ours so they just order US version cars, US VIN and all. Many wind up in the US because importation is so simple.

Point is there are US version cars with US VINs that were not sold here new and are not in any legitimate data base as a US car.

 

Mine is a US Steel Carb car 1976 production chassis 20583

 

My wallet is not big enough