No Orig from Michigan.
9.29.20 update - now road testing with my diag tool... it reads cat ecu temps real time and can data-log. Start-up / idle - 840 deg F Aggressive drive to coffee shop - 1050 deg F (max temp) Post coffee (15min cool down) - 870 deg F Aggressive ride home - 1040 deg F (max temp) Per aldus voice - 900c is when slowdown light is triggered..... 900c is 1652 F..... so I'm well below "slow down" threshold. Temp gun on cat inlet, and outlet: 460 deg F / 780 deg F So appears cats are functioning No Slow Down Light. No glowing cat at cat exit piping.... slight glow at the inlet o2 bung.... ... Will post up smoke test results of intake system when it arrives from the magical amazon parts supplier....
Received smoke tester today. Tested 360 manifold - and NO leaks in the intake system. Buttoned up the car, and did another test run with diag tool on..... max cat temp is 1050deg F which is well below "slow down" threshold. Cats cool down quickly at stop lights.. back down to 850-900 deg F. I'll call this case-closed for now.
So 2 weeks later.... and the silly quick flashy slow down re-appears. Hooked up my scanner and drove some miles hard/soft fast/slow..... ecus shows max temps @ 1040F well below "slow down" flash threshold. In fact when it flashed again I was on a cool down run..... cats were cooling down to 960F..... then quick flash on decel to a stop. So technicstrada aftermarket cat ecu on order. To recap my troubleshooting: 1 - new battery 2 - removed the following items I installed at last service: put OEM fuel inj back on, put OEM coil packs back on, put OEM air box/filters back on 3 - smoke tested for vac leaks... found none. Visual shows no glowing cats. ECU shows max temp of 1050F.... well under slow-down threshold. SO ECU onorder. Hope this helps some other plonker out there.
We have 100% solved this issue with SAK. We went with the same method that Bosch did in their ecu's on late spec F430's and REMOVED the cat thermistors and cat ecu's altogether. They simply use cat temperature estimation modelling as a way to trigger a slow down or fuel cut. If you go with the upgraded ecu software route is vastly better than any other option as there is simply much less to go wrong. No thermistors to go brittle and crack wiring on, no cat ecu's to go bad and just updated software.. No wonder Ferrari did this and now so can you.
If the Engine ECU reads 1050F, doesn’t it means that the cat ECU are functioning properly as the value it reads is what the ECU shows? It would indicate to me that the slowdown comes from somewhere else. Was are the other causes? Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
foto- good catch, and correct logic. I guess I have a new cat ecu on order in any case. Will see if the cat ecu can transmit proper voltage/temps to my obd reader.... AND yet still kick out erroneous instantaneous voltage spikes which trigger the flashing slow down. I'm never getting a continuous slow down...... it flashes so fast you have to be watching to notice....... like a glitch or voltage spike from the unit. Will see what the new ecu does. andTREV.... I can never reach you bud..... so while I know you have some cool stuff... you are unreachable....
Momentary flashes are what I saw, too until I swapped in new cat ECUs. Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
If any of you guys just want this done once and forever (fit and forget) then please don't pm me, simply get in touch with Aldous of AV Engineering Limited in Kent, UK. As some on here have discovered I am very busy and don't get that much time to respond to the many messages I get sent. Email: [email protected] Web: www.avengineeringltd.com The solution can also either delete or raise thresholds for cat efficiency too so you never get CEL's even with cat delete or sports cats (again the cat extenders never work properly in the long term, just get the software fixed once and for all). At the same time you can also delete the secondary o2's (less to go wrong, less parts to replace). So just the fact you no longer need secondary o2s, thermistor probes or cat ecu's you are removing a lot of failure points and making the car more reliable. Any other non software solutions have more failure points, more to go wrong and all will eventually fail, whether its a fatigue of the temperature sensors (thermistors) or the cat voltage converters (with all the noise, vibration and heat cycles the resin cracks and water ingress kills them) or any of the associated wiring and connectors (each with their own potential for corrosion), none of this is necessary.
Trev I'll keep that option in mind sir. Cool you are at AV! Here's my update: My OBD reader can only read the ecu 1 side. Today's drive: still getting the flash slow-down after long accel, then long decel. Pull over and each cat is glowing in the darkness. ECU bank 1 (the only bank I can read) shows cat ecu model temp @ 1050F. (which is way below threshold) Also check fuel trims on bank 1 - short term near 0 long term @ +5.5% (indicated slightly lean).... but totally within +/-10% range which I understand is OK. Here's what I'm going to start checking: fuel pump - check fuel pressure at idle. Could be a failing pump or clogged filter causing lean cond? header leak @ heads - could be an ex leak here causing o2 (1 position) to read lean and cause engine to add extra fuel? ex leak @ header to back cats..... I did re-use the donut gaskets here..... this fitment is a bit weak IMHO..... have new gaskets. Perhaps back cats are sucking in O2 and this extra O2 is super heating?... it would seem an ex leak would not SUCK in ambient air....... but will check this. Back cats could be bad..... can do a visual. I have some aftermarket 200cel cat pipes to install. Fun with trouble shooting. I'll also fit the new cat ecu's when they arrive.
Troubleshooting update 10.20.20 1PM Fuel Pressure both rails 50-52 at idle. Going to call fuel pumps good. Not going to try and data-log fuel pressure real-time at this point. Found some extra Mass Air Meters - I'll a/b test these. I've got some primary O2 sensors on order. - will throw those in when they arrive. Going to put the car up on stands and see if my header nuts have come loose.....
turned battery off, then on installed my old Mass Air Meters. found a couple rubber hose clamps loose on the valve covers.... seeping oil vapor from the oil can tightened those up checked all vac lines again on top of engine... and for the air injection into the headers - all tight. after all this.... stft hovers around 0.... ltft same..... but will learn more after 1st drive. primary o2 sensor v static @ .45.... then creep up to .455....... not seeing usual sweep. Might need a better scan tool . or it's reading the back 02 sensor. Will search for a more capable reader. ** tune out if you don't want to watch an old man troubleshoot. hopefully this line of logic/effort is helpful to someone..... once I figure this out.
Spirited drive with my other set of MAS sensors. Feels much stronger all around. STFT ~1 LTFT ~ 0..... NO slow down light on this 20 mile hammer time trip. Now just a faint glow on the upstream O2 sensor... no other glowing on either side. Will put on more miles before I claim success for the 3 rd time.
I'm actually not at AV, I don't even live in the same country but they are very good friends whom I trust. They also look after my 360 Eddie and I go back well over a decade and Aldous is fantastic, he certainly knows his stuff so when they offered to help out ( I simply don't have enough time to help everyone who asks ) I was happy to oblige. Good luck with the CEL's!
Thanks TREV - although we've never met in person.... you seem like part of my dysfunctional car family...... thx for the support.
1 4 torque, I'm watching your troubleshooting with great interest. I hope that you solve it. And tell us how you did it. Bill
Thx fiat! I figure you can pop open a brew or tea and watch me celebrate success or cry in despair. All free of charge. Im enjoying the trouble shooting. and it’s not my daily... so maybe I’ll learn a thing or two.
10.23.20 Update.... <<<note I have a day job... so have to troubleshoot between work days>>>> test drive this morning with diff mas meters on each bank. You may recal my last test drive had no slow down, well this morning glowing red cats again and slow down light flashing.... the longest flashes yet in duration... Prob 1-2 seconds. starting pouring over the engine in detail.... and what do I find but the O2 sensors upstream of the rear cats were loose @ the O2 extenders..... the threads are not the best quality on the extender and the crush washer was not fully crushed..... so I had just snugged these up..... I re installed the extender with a small dab of anti-seize, then tq'd down several turns to crush the washer up to snug...... THEN bolted the o2 sensor down same process....... will go for a test drive later .... and fingers crossed this would explain why my st and lt fuel trims are FINE..... but my cats are glowing red......
10.23.20 2:45PM - looks like success! No slow down light. Now nothing is glowing....... not even the o2 bungs. Will post up final after severl more drive cycles....... and no glowing cats or sdl.
That makes sense. Let a bunch of air in there and the O2 sensor thinks it is lean so adds extra fuel. That makes you overly rich and things heat up.
Man you guys would have fired me by now.... but I can't fire my self.... so more updates... same old sshizz.... slow down light this am. So said heck with it..... and removed the stock secondary cat pipes. By visual inspection they look OK..... installed new header to back pipe donut gaskets.... Installed my aftermarket 200 cell cat pipes. ***** No slow down light. Seat - o -pants meter says car is much happier. Oh what a glorious scream..... NOW through aftermarket headers...... 200 cell cat pipes... then cs box. underpasses are an event now. pull into garage no glowing cats. and now my car and garage cool off way faster now... temp gun shows 560f highest temp on back cat pipes now.... was 850+...... I won't claim victory until a few more cyles... this look promising. thinking old OEM cat pipes were stuffed....... I'm re-hired....
10.25.20 5PM - 3 more drives no slow down light Per voicy website rec, bought a wifi obd dongle: elm 327 wi-fi and purchased the "OBD Facile" software I can now connect to both ecu's...... and was able to confirm LTFT's are .8 and 1.2 for each bank..... so I'm satisfied I fixed my slow down issue. Strange thing about the OBD Facile software.... while I can read both ecu's..... I can only read them with Key On and Engine OFF. If I turn on the engine..... I can only read the 1 bank.... the 2nd bank data shuts off. Will contract my french buddies @ OBD Facile for some guidance. LMK if you all are familiar with this system. Cheers.
Hey Jeff, I saw you mentioned you're going to order them, but Did you already replace the cat ecus? If not, Am I understanding you can't read bank 2 on the passenger side? Did you try switching the cat ecus from one side to the other that way you can kind of check and see what the other ones doing. Sent from my LM-V350 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Hello BLiner! I have one OBD scanner that will allow me to read Cat ECU output model temps on one bankonly. I just bought a 2nd OBD scanner that will allow me to read both ECU Banks..... BUT no cat ecu connectivity...... and it only communicates with the other bank with Key On, Engine Off.... if I turn on the engine I only get one bank reading.
10.30.20 update - No more slowdown light now after installing new header - cat donut gaskets, and swapping old OEM cats for aftermarket top-speed 200 cell cat pipes. I suspect the OEM cats were plugging up. The the CS muff with the aftermarket headers now have soo much more character with throttle input...... it's like playing a instrument. Another note - the rec 360 obd software OBD Facile...... only reads both banks ECU's with Key On Engine OFF...... the vendor confirmed this limitation. It's still a useful tool for scanner LTFT's on both banks which is the best engine health measure we have access too without the big $$ scanner. To recap my journey: Issue - random slow down flash. Attempted fixes / result - New battery / temp fix, then slow down light returned Changed: fuel inj / no success coils / no success Checked fuel pressure both banks - FINE. Smoke Test intake - no leaks detected Found loose O2 sensor bung - did not change my issue after tighten up. Swapped out OEM cats for 200 cell new cats with new gaskets - solved.
