Maserati Khamsin | Page 354 | FerrariChat

Maserati Khamsin

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Maeter, Feb 24, 2008.

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  1. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Bob
    #8826 staatsof, Oct 29, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
    These sound an awful lot like the seating runners in my Espada? I can't really tell WO seeing them but I beleive they are out of a Fiat 124. At least that's what I utilized to fabricate modified versions that could be secured to the floorboards of my Espada.
    I spent some considerable amount time working over the runners to get them to operate properly again. The mounting holes to the seating frame also had to relocated to prevent the for/aft adjustment lever from digging into the seat cushion. I wasn't going to have a $25 seating track ruin a $5K interior refitment like the originals had. Similar issue with side lever for releasing the seat backs. Idiots!

    The original mounting points for the floor boards on mine had completely worn out with threads of the encapsulated square nuts locked in place having become stripped and the nuts almost tearing out of the long longitudinal pressed sheet metal runners spot welded to the floor boards.

    It is a terribly flimsy design. Someone I know had his Espada totalled at a stoplight by a rear end collision during which both seats ripped free and he and his wife were saved only by the belts. It was a 100 pt. car too ... :(

    I now have thick flat steel bars running the full length slipped into those channels with threaded holes at each end for the seating racks. That spreads the load nicely and securely. It's not race car level of construction but I also didn't have to weld inside the car.

    Take a look at the Fiat (or maybe it was Alfa) seating tracks and see if they're the same. Bertone designed and built the bodies of both the Khamsin and the Espada. Having been through an Espada now I don't find that terribly comforting. Apparently both cars suffer from an improper sealing at the rear. On the Espada it's a huge open gap on each side which is minimally obstructed but not sealed by the fiberglass interior panels covered with proper English Wilton wool carpet and Connolly leather! God save the Queen and all but this won't save you.
     
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  2. Froggie

    Froggie Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2017
    476
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Serge
    Thanks for the seat runners info.
    The seats in my Indy are also very difficult to move and I could not see yet how they are attached on the seat runners.
    I will have to explore that.
    Interested to learn from here even if Maserati may have had several different systems depending on the cars (any pics welcome).
     
  3. achimguenther1

    Nov 6, 2011
    49
    Germany, Baunatal
    Full Name:
    Achim Günther
    The rims are made from 3 pieces:
    outer barrel: 2,5 inch wide,
    inner barrel 5 inch wide,
    I bought the barrels from "felgenfuchs.de" ( Schmidt Felgen )
    These barrels are (copy) barrels fitting to BBS rims with 34 screws M7*1.
    We designed only the center disc, fitting to the Maserati studs (4*130mm ) and these barrel sizes having the same rim offset like the original Campagnolo rims. It is not a cover, it is one piece what you see on the photos, view from outside and view from inside.
    The center disc ist made from an aluminium plate 70 mm thick and 500mm diameter by CNC turning and CNC hobbing.
    May be it looks a little bit like a cover: only the flange is in contact to the barrels.
    You are right, the Michelin tires are normal street tires, no racing tires.
    I never felt safe with the old rims and the XWX tires: I hat vibrations at higher speed, not possible to balance it ; there are a lot of stories about older magnesium rims...
    I wanted to keep the original look as much as possible, so rims are not bigger than 17 inch.

    Greetings Achim
     
  4. achimguenther1

    Nov 6, 2011
    49
    Germany, Baunatal
    Full Name:
    Achim Günther
    Ask Thomas Rölle made for the fuse box cover, he made reproduction: [email protected]
    rubber cap for LHM Tank: MIE Maserati
    Greetings Achim
     
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  5. achimguenther1

    Nov 6, 2011
    49
    Germany, Baunatal
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    Achim Günther
    I made the rim project together with Thomas, we will assemble his set of rims soon. I am waiting for his visit.
    Costs:
    Inner and outer barrels are not expensive: 170 + 150 Euro / piece.
    But material and CNC machining of the center disc was expensive !!
    + screws and powder-coating of center disc and outer barrel.
    Before making it available to others, it needs a "Gutachten" and "Betriebserlaubnis", this is very expensive in Germany
    May be Thomas will start such activities.

    I saw your post from Thomas,s red Khamsin: I changed my waterpump/AC/Generator-driving belts first, because when I bought my Khamsin it came with a Bora waterpump, not original Sanden AC compressor and a confusing pulley belt system.
    But I took that Idea because new reproduction Bora waterpumps were available for a reasonable price, took modern AC compressor and generator
    This solution runs perfect since 3 years / 8000Km.

    Greetings Achim
     
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  6. achimguenther1

    Nov 6, 2011
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  7. Louis Basten

    Louis Basten Rookie

    Oct 29, 2020
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    Amherst Virginia
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    Louis Basten
    Really like the color. See attached photo of my 68 Olive Ghibli. I grew out of the original fly yellow. I wish I still had it, but sold it 35 years ago.....
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  8. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    998
    Hi Louis---
    Sent you a Private Message---PM---
    Thanks
     
  9. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula 3

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    #8834 71Satisfaction, Oct 30, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
    Thank you Neil, for your very useful comments.
    I've gotten the seats out and the runners exposed. Only one runner is faulty, it's one of the locking arm runners, and I have the other side to compare with. Otherwise the runners are all stout and tight. I don't see anything flimsy like Bob describes in his Espada, although I will see if I can replace the main mounting bolts with Allen head bolts instead of flat-slot screw heads. There is also a manufacturer's logo I can perhaps use to search for sources.

    Anyway - Yes, I analyzed the behavior of the little balls on the sides, plus the center rollers, and the main problem is as you describe: The travel of the runners is dictated by the dimples in the runner that limit the travel of the associated roller balls*. I was able to get the faulty runner to behave normally and travel its full range, after I had lubricated the track and manhandled it while. During further working of the runner back and forth, I heard a 'click' and something fell out of whack and it stopped traveling fully again. The limit was a hard impact and without any softness that usually comes with the balls rolling against the dimple. Possibly an object has entered the runner. I could see that one ball was ALMOST over a dimple, so I'll look at that more closely and scrutinize how the balls are interacting with the dimples. I'll check if any of mine have skipped over the dimples. Further manipulation got the faulty runner to travel fully again, so I will continue the investigation until I can understand what causes the fault. It does appear the one faulty runner may be MISSING balls, one may have skipped out and is trapped in the center and intermittently interfering with the center roller's travel.

    *SIDE NOTE: This roller/ball/dimple method is common in residential drawer sliders, which I am familiar with. When the roller balls get out of 'calibration' on a household drawer slider, you are able to 'reset' their full travel simply with force because the friction of the balls with lubricating grease isn't more than what you can overcome with muscle force. I assumed these would behave the same, so I greased everything good where the tracks had run dry. This may have helped, but not clear that the same muscle force is enough to overcome the friction.

    Cheers,
    - Art
     
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  10. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula 3

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    Thanks for the detailed information and background. I can probably track down a replacement from the manufacturer's logo if I can't get my one runner to behave reliably. In a pinch, the other alternative is to simply swap the pairs side-to-side and let my Passenger suffer the occasional lack of adjustment. Even though mine appear pretty stout, I'll have a good look at their floor mounts. The captured nuts on my floor mounts appear to have good threads, so far.
    Cheers,
    - Art
     
  11. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    In the case of the rear ender accident it wasn't the threads that failed. The square nuts were pulled right through the sheet metal. I originally want to put large thick washers on the underside with bolts coming through from above but I ran into something that was in the way and doing what I did was easier.
     
  12. MK1044

    MK1044 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 6, 2011
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  13. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    998
    Yes.
    It was a no sale yesterday w/a high bid of GBP 100K.
    Reserve @ GBP 120K.

    She was inexplicably converted to that sad interior by somebody from its factory black leather.
    Argento/black original spec would have been stunning, if it had not been molested!
     
  14. Froggie

    Froggie Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2017
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    Marc is famous enough to be largely quoted by Sotheby's as a sale argument!
    But not sure that the way it is quoted helps for the sale ;)
    "it was purchased by Ben Liebert, who drove the car in Marc Sonnery’s Khamsin Quaranta, celebrating 40 years of the Khamsin in June 2012 (Sonnery is keen to note that there will be a 50th anniversary “Khamsin Cinquanta” taking place in June 2022, with a goal of assembling 50 Khamsins)."
     
  15. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    OK I have to ask, what's so horrible about the interior, just the color change?
     
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  16. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
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    Yes. The leather AND carpet color changes.
     
  17. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    3,338
    Hershey, PA
    Think the current market on Khamsins is now established. 120-150k on nice (non Concours level) cars. Which given the current economic and geopolitical conditions in the world is actually pretty good.
     
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  18. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Well that's a personal choice as opposed to huge modifications but I understand.
    I remember seeing the Khamsin with the alligator skin hides in the seat centers @ Lime Rock raceway quite a few years ago. It didn't bother me until I sat in it. OUCH! Those bumps in the hides actually hurt. Though I'm certain it was an anathema to purists such as yourself. But I'd like people to consider that some very high end cars were custom equipped with snakeskin and alligator alsong with Ostrich and quite a variety materials. Just because it's not our cup of tea doesn't make wrong or a mortal sin. Frank Sinatra ordered his Miura with brightly colored shag carpeting.

    I almost bought the glass roof Espada utilized by the Prince and Princess Grace of Monaco to do several laps of the Grand Prix race back in the day ... That had a custom ordered metal flake Bass boat style paint job same as was used on the original and only Miura sypder before it became a rather ugly looking promotional vehicle for the zinc industry with all sorts of clad on zinc pieces. Thankfully that got reversed by Gary Bobileff's shop. I've it seen in person in both liveries.


    That Espada was also ordered as a promotional for Wynn's automotive products. https://wynnsusa.com/
    It had blue shag carpeting that was poorly installed with no edging and I verified that was how it was originally built. That part WAS a horrible choice. At one time a single individual own both of those cars and sensibly eliminated the shag in the Espada.

    I think any issues of originality with this Khamsin are inconsequential. Many enthusiasts on here decide on color changes. But if absolut originality is a big deal to some of your so be it.
     
  19. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    998
    Gentlemen---

    I have the privilege of introducing to our fraternity a true gentleman and Maserati connoisseur extraordinaire, Louis B Basten.
    He is the original owner of my 1972 euro Bora, who was kind enough to agree to sell her to me during a memorable lunch in Virginia in 1987!
    Please extend him a very warm welcome!

    The following excerpt is from a PM he sent me yesterday, quoted w/permission:

    This is new to me. I have never participated in a chat. I have owned a 68 Ghibli, 72 Bora, 76 Khamsin, and presently own a 77 Khamsin (AM120US1182, see attachment) which needs technical assistance for installing LHM hydraulic repair kits (ordered from MIE) to the primary clutch slave cylinder and high pressure pump. I am retired now and enjoy doing as much of the mechanical work that I can accurately figure out (I have enjoyed working on cars since I was 15 and completely assembled a rebuilt 4.7 Ghibli engine in 1974). I have access to many repair bulletins and technical tips from the Factory, MIE and Viale Ciro Menotti (I have every issue), however, I have no instructions on installing the hydraulic repair kits from MIE or elsewhere. This system operates up to 2500psi and I don't want to make a mistake. It might be so simple and safe just to disassemble and then install new O rings, gaskets or other parts? Any information or assistance you or anyone else can provide would be appreciated.
    I need assistance on a number or other issues which I will save for later. Incidentally, I tried to contact Marc Sonnery concerning the Khamsin Registry, but his email address would not work. I am attempting to put togetrher a complete ownership history of my Khamsin and he may be able to help. Please ask him to contact me if this registry is still active.

    Thanks!,
    Lou Basten

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
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    Michael Demyanovich
    Hello Lou...

    Welcome to the Khamsin Thread!

    Mike
     
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  21. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    I can help with some of the ownership history since I owned #1182 years ago. When I bought it the car still had its original paint and interior and USA bumpers. I converted the rear bumper but not the front. This was many moons ago before bumper conversion kits were available. The car had been at MIE and had been fitted Ghibli wire wheels. I traded the car for a couple of Jaguar e-type with a good friend that lived just a few miles from my house. He had it for some time (and loved the car) and later traded back to MIE for a Mexico plus some cash.

    Photos from when my friend had it are here: http://thecarnut.com/khamsin.html

    Ivan
     
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  22. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    Well I was happy to help RM with photo supply and some data but selling a US K LHD in a UK auction was far from ideal so there is no doubt that hampered the sale.
     
  23. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    #8848 Nembo1777, Nov 2, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
    Bob surely you mean 1058 done in the early 2000's in Ostrich for Kevin Delia by a workshop in Connecticut? I have never heard of a K with gator skins and would rather not see that if it exists:eek:.

    Photos of 1058 attached below, showing the Ostrich interior when new. It has long ago had its interior modified towards normality. It has been all over Europe since. The weirdest thing of the sort I ever saw was a special order apple green 911 at the Porsche factory in 1992 or 93 with yellow Ostrich interior -skins turned around so the little bumps would show- headed for Teheran.

    In the era of Delage and Delahaye all kinds of animal reptile skins were used, there were some truly outlandish ones.

    When conducting all the interviews in 2007-2008 for the recently published Kidston Miura book (for which I was initially co author until I lost patience in 2012 with his endless delays -12 years total, it only just came out-) Ingrid Pussich former secretary of Ferruccio Lamborghini and sales manager Ubaldo Sgarzi confirmed to me during an interview in the village square in the company of Valentino Balboni that the whole Miura Frank Sinatra story was a myth. No doubt Ubaldo Sgarzi started that story, no one, bless his soul, came up with so much nonsense in an interview I have conducted as him. He was the typical scoundrel salesman, very resourceful, I'll give him that.

    The client was a Doctor Sinatra, it is actually a common name, she said they still had his letter in the factory archives. Some prominent people got swindled into believing the Frank Sinatra story including Christie's. When I informed the Christie's NYC man in charge a couple of years after that NY auction where the alleged car was sold his eyes went really big....but he had left Christie's by then as they stopped auctioning cars in 2007. Silly when you think Sinatra was a Cadillac convertible arm on window ledge kind of driver, NOT an Italian sports car type at all. It should have been obvious. He also never set foot at the Sant'Agata factory other than in Sgarzi's tale.

    Prince Rainier and Princess Grace did a lap of honor BEFORE the Grand Prix in 1967 in the one off six cylinder glass sided and roofed Marzal show car. Prince Albert drove the restored car for a lap as well during the 2016 historic GP. It is now owned by Mr Spiess in St Gallen Switzerland.

    There has also been a normal Espada which did have a huge glass roof, perhaps you are confusing the two?

    Anyway to stay on topic I will post later some wooden interiors people have installed privately in Khamsins.

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  24. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    Thank you Boralogist, welcome Louis you have a PM.
     
  25. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #8850 staatsof, Nov 2, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
    Yeah that's the Khamsin and you're correct it was Ostrich. Maybe the tires were Gatobacks at the time? ;) :p Still uncomfortable as hell. I know purists probably hate it but it is striking to look at

    I confirmed the Espada story with Valentino in person at a show in the Poconos mountains when I presented photos on a laptop of the car I was trying to purchase. He graciously researched #7293 when he returned to Italy and said that the shag carpeting was a customer request. Neither of us could beleive it at the time. But I'm not confused about which Espada this one was.

    Unfortunately this forum's software won't load any photos this am? I do have some factory documents and a couple of newspaper articles from that era. But I did my homework on that car and have plenty of documentation establishing the provenance. Anyway, this isn't the place to go on about a Lamborghini. You backed up the point I was making about customizing. :)


    [​IMG]
     
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