Moving from F12 to 812SF...any regrets?

We all know that looks are subjective and...on paper...the 812SF surpasses the performance of the F12.

However, has anyone made the switch from F12 TO 812SF and felt the 812 was less "raw" to the point they experience some regret? Or regret for any other reason as well.

Thanks.

 

No because it's more raw. More of an animal. Not sure what I would regret.

 

As I have not had the opportunity to drive/passenger in an 812 I must rely at this point on videos and magazine articles. The take away from those sources for me is...while the 812 is quicker...it is more "refined" and "easier to handle" as compared to the F12.

Again, without having driven the 812, I worry that those 'achievements' are at the expense of the driving experience. Given your response above, I presume that not to be the case?

Don't want to assume faster = better driving experience.

 

I just traded my ‘15 F12 for a ‘20 Superfast. In short, the F12 was amazing, but Ferrari did manage to create a significantly better, albeit more expensive car. I have to say I love everything more. It’s better looking, insanely loud and fast, and handles like a car half it’s size. Hands down the best car imaginable,

 

I had a white F12 and I have a red 812SF now . Honestly 812SF is a fantastic car but F12 too. I don’t feel so much difference . I push very hard quite often and it is difficult for me to feel horsepower improvement , electric steering wheel and rear wheels steering . The real improvement is gearbox when you use in auto : F12 you can use auto when you drive very slowly and as soon as you push it is funny what it is doing , 812SF auto selection is much much better even if I don’t use it so much and I prefer manual . Second big change is gearbox ratio first six gears : 812 SF is having shorter gear ratio and you are over rev immediately with blue led on and suddenly you have to change gears . F12 is having longer gear ratio and I preferred to stay with same gear for longer time and longer push . 812SF from 6th to 7th gear is dropping too many revs. Each one is having his own perception and these are mine . Anyway they are not big , big changes , they are very similar and I love both .

 

I think it is important to define "refined" in this context. Yes the 812 is more refined, but not less raw. I think a word which fits better, is honed. It is every bit as crazy and wild as the F12, it is just better. Better suspension, better gearbox, better steering. To me the F12 is a bit of an odd one. It was a car one drove with a bit of a serious face somehow, where I find the 812 to be a happy and playful car. The 812 is not a slightly tweaked F12, it is a different car for all the right reasons.

Steering is still fast but much better weighted.
Suspension is firmer, yet it is more comfortable and much less busy.
Smoother and faster gear controls as well as better programming in Auto.
Smoother ESC which makes it seem more subtle and less intrusive.
Better interior which feels better put together - think Lusso vs. FF. Less rattles and noises.

Drive an F12 and 812 back to back, and there's a good chance that it will permanently scar your impressions of the F12. It sure did for me.

Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Nice thread, I love my FF and it makes me willing a second Fcar with the V12 and only 2 seats.
My heart swings between the F12 and the 812 as well.
I had the luck to run an F12 but not yet a 812.
My Ferrari ownership/experience is short (1year) but I built several high power Porsche engines and gearboxes for >20 years.
Short gears makes engines more reactive but "annihilates" the torque feeling and that is what I love.
Regarding the look I do prefer a little the F12 wich appears more "pure" to my eyes but it is subjective...
I'm pretty impatient to run a 812 which is possibly the "graal"!

 

Traded my ‘16 F12 (15K miles), which I adored, for a pre-GPF ‘19 812SF (now have put on 3500 miles).
No regrets at all.
F12 is a marvelous machine and worthy of the love of any tifosi who bleeds Rosa Corsa.
But...the 812 is a far superior driving machine in all respects.
Looks are as you say, subjective.

 

When you spend a lot of money of difference when you trade in a F12 for a 812SF it is difficult to admit to yourself the difference is not for a superior driving

 

Thanks for all of the replies.

What I like about the F12 is the feeling that...even with the computer gizmos fully engaged...the car commands respect and...for lack of a better word...wants to kill you if you push it and don't know what you are doing. Clarkson's Top Gear review/video pretty much sums up my thoughts...a lot of power for the street and you better know what you are doing.

My concern of "refined" with regard to the 812SF is did the computer programmers at Ferrari create a different algorithm for all the computer gizmos that makes the car more useable...and quicker...to the "every man/woman" and, thereby removing some of the "fear" that the F12 demanded.

Each new generation of cars gets quicker, but also removes another layer of required driver skill...at least IMO.

Maybe I am making too much out of the improvements...including the rear wheel steering...on the 812SF. I just don't want to buy an 812SF if it makes me more of a "passenger" to all of the refined computer programming...albeit in a quicker car than the F12.

I have an '19 E63 wagon which is quite quick, but pretty much anyone can start that car and drive it in a spirited manner without worry. I guess I miss the days of the '80s Porsche 911 Turbo which, if not careful, would quickly put you in a ditch.

 

First time I drove the F12 and 812 back to back, there was no money involved. It was simply a few hours with each car. About 20 mins between them. Only did it then for the comparison. It was about as "pure" of a comparison as could be. The 812 still blew the F12 clean out ofcthe water. It is that much better.

Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

The 812 still feels like it can bite you. My seat of the pants sense is it feels 150hp more powerful. Its the increase in power and more aggressive gears. The sound is improved. The gear shifts are incredible. It feels like you are changing the atmospheric pressure around the car when you change gears- especially downshifts. Interior is much better laid out and also feels better quality. It is a better car all around.

The two things with which I have a little hesitancy - 1. the steering, it doesnt really have less feel than the F12, but there's something about the steering on the straight ahead which just doesnt feel quite as connected. Its not bad, but I preferred the steering in the F12 (just a touch) this is made up for the more playful/ faster reactions because of the RWS. 2. the looks. I think the 812 is a great looking car, but the F12 is even better looking to my eyes. If you get an 812, or any Ferrari, make sure to get it aligned. It is a monster of a car.

 

The ESC system is not the cause of the difference, the chassis is. The 812 is just better at putting its power to the ground. In my opinion, that actually demands more respect, as things happen quicker once you are on the limit. E
What tyres you have on the F12 also matters. If you have the F12 PZero, some of its behaviour is because of their lack of grip. If you think that is a plus, just put a set of the previous gen PZero on the 812. An F12 becomes much more drivable on both PZ4 as well as MPS4S compared to PZero. If you had MPSS kn the F12, then it is close to MPS4S in terms of tyres. The F12 in factory chassis trim is a bit underdampened which makes it busy and nervous. A car can be more involved to drive for two reasons. One is because it has fewer nannies, the other is because it is not as well "tuned". When comparing the 812 and F12 I think the F12 is more demanding at low speed due to the latter, not the former. At high speed I think the 812 is more of a challenge for the same reason a race car is. The 812 is not a race car, but hear me out. A race car on slicks is not very progressive. It keeps gripping and will give you confidence, until you run out of talent. Then it goes from full grip to no grip and spits you off the track. An 812 is nothing like a race car, and as is always the case with a car on street tyres, it breaks away in a progressive fashion. But compared to an F12 it is less progressive. While an F12 feels and is more twitchy, this is also what warns you when you reach the limit. The 812 is different. It feels more planted and you feel more at ease. But once you run out of talent, things happen faster than with the F12. For some this will create a situation where the 812 might feel less exciting as it takes a bit more to reach that limit. To others this is just a plus because the 812 limit is more exciting.

But there are ways of setting it up to your liking, and tyres are a great place to start. The less grip they have, the more progressive and nervous it will feel at low speed. Put Trofeo R on it and you get a machine that is a proper murderous beast as it will let you push like never before - until it takes your head off in one punch.

Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

I said that in general because owners (like me) answering to this question normally they traded in a F12 for a 812SF and a lot of money in addition . I drove my F12 for around 12000 miles and I have 1500 miles on my 812SF . What I’m trying to say is there is a difference between two cars with minus and plus but not enough related to amount of money involved

 

You are not the first to have said that.

 

Money is relative, sounds like it might mean more to you than to others. Attempting to highlight potential biases in other merely puts a spotlight on your biases.

 

I guess the money thing comes in to play as they are both used cars so prices are negotiable and you tend to look more at value. With a new one the cost is fixed and either you flat out love the car or you don't. I drove the two back to back with mine doing 1.5 hrs to the dealer and found the 812 to be what I expected. I felt some but not all of the differences others described and liked the lower gearing. Did not like the seats but the looks of the car were just a verified non-starter for me. Great cars but one is the ugly sister.

 

Should be no regrets on this sort of decision. You are going from one amazing vehicle to another amazing vehicle. At this level the cost shouldn't be a significant concern. The only regret is the choice not taken if you want.

 

No regret. F12 is one of my favorite cars, however, the 812 is better at every level.

The F12’s ride and suspension was less refined, which gave it a sense of nervousness and exhilaration that was fun.

Having said that, you can toss the 812 around a track very confidently. It’s exceptional on normal roads too and both the engine and transmission are superb in every way.




Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

IMO it is the opposite . If money means more then you you find out all reasons to justify what you spent . If money doesn’t mean so much you compare the new car with the previous one and you have your feeling . My feeling driving both is they are very similar and if I knew that before probably I didn’t buy a new 812SF but probably another used F12 with less mileage .

 

A lot of good comments. I’ve owned two F12s. Love them.

All things being equal, who has the balls to track an F12?

I bet not many.

You can flog the crap out of an 812 on track. Which I feel is a testament to the improvement of the car, especially when it comes to driving dynamics.

I wouldn’t mind having both however. Very different cars and both have a great engine and transmission.






Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Having both is a great solution! Unless I get lucky to get a 812 “VS”, adding an F12 would be my plan. Of course, it also depends on whether 812 replacement remains pure V12 or if there’ll be a rear-mid V12 too.

 

I drove my F12 30k miles, and am a year into my 812. Both are amazing cars. Both still feel like "analog" cars to me. There's plenty of tech in each, but each feel pretty simple in the driver interface. The 812 is a little more developed in every aspect. I don't think mortals can see any more real world performance in one verses the other, but the 812 feels and sounds quicker. I actually think the F12 bumpy road setting is softer than the 812--but I may be alone in that view. The F12 is clearly the better "value" right now, but anyone going the v12 F route is not going for the value play with either choice.

 

Flogging an F12 on a track compared to an 812, is like dancing a waltz vs. a figure skater. The F12 is fast and precise, but you got to sway and roll with it. The 812 is much more like a sports car that carves into the turns in a more aggressive and sharp manner. The F12 has more in common with an FF than a 488, where as the 812 seem to have more in common with a 488. I still don't understand why some call the 812 a GT. It has the mannerisms and attitude of a sports car, and within Ferraris line of cars, it is considered a sports car.

The way I experience them is as follows. The F12 is GT first, sports car second. The 812 is sports car first, GT second.

Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app