Please help to decide to buy or not | FerrariChat

Please help to decide to buy or not

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Zanetti, Nov 3, 2020.

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Would you buy a Ferrari for 50-60% of it's price outside your country

  1. Yes

  2. No, too risky

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Zanetti

    Zanetti Rookie

    Nov 3, 2020
    27
    Full Name:
    Andrey Pikhov
    Guys I have an opportunity a more than 10 year old Ferrari for dirt cheap, (don't want to disclose the amount so you don't envy) :D
    I live outside EU, and there is a guy leaving the country who doesn't need the car.
    Actually it's not that driveable in my country and I'm wondering if it will be possible to buy and sell the car in US or EU? How much would be reasonable to buy to make profits after custom clearance and etc? Would anyone in US or EU consider buying outside or no? Is it real to sell it by parts?
    Haven't bought the car yet, but have only several hours to decide.

    Please help
     
  2. Zanetti

    Zanetti Rookie

    Nov 3, 2020
    27
    Full Name:
    Andrey Pikhov
    To be more specific, there are no other Ferraris in my country, so I can't check it properly before I buy it. We don't have any service for them. All the borders are closed due to corona, so if I want to send it out I need to hire a car carrying truck, also I think the paperwork of importing a vehicle to EU or US can be heavy. The car has very low mileage, and has clean paperwork. On the other side F1 transmission which can break every moment.
    It's my child dream to own a Ferrari, but most probably will be traveling soon for a year or two.
     
  3. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,682
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Peekoff Andropoff, is this a joke?
     
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  4. Zanetti

    Zanetti Rookie

    Nov 3, 2020
    27
    Full Name:
    Andrey Pikhov
    No bro, it's not a joke at all. If anyone can help me with looking the car via facetime and can indicate what problems it has it will be a great help.
     
  5. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    16,602
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    Yes, it's a great opportunity. I would love to partner with you. Send me the info on where to wire my funds. Also, can I give you my credit card information now so you can make a deposit? I am ready to give you my bank account information too.

    Looking forward to hearing from soon you since we only have a few hours to complete this deal!

    In good faith, let me also give you all my personal information so you can send me the full details!
     
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  6. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    16,602
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    the clock is ticking @Zanetti you (or we) can't let this one slip by!!! Please contact me before the ninety-nine cent 60% off Ferrari deal gets snapped up!

    Opportunity awaits!

    You snooze you lose right?
     
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  7. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,819
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    If it sounds too good to be true, it is.

    Run away!

    Edit: I forgot to add, the key tip off is you only have hours to decide. Huge, huge red flag. Move on.
     
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  8. Zanetti

    Zanetti Rookie

    Nov 3, 2020
    27
    Full Name:
    Andrey Pikhov
    Actually I've seen all the docs and can go see the car. I think saying that I have hours, is something to rush me. But maybe it wouldn't be sold even in 2-3 days. I am not seeking any buyers here, I just want to understand is it real to move car to US or EU and sell it there?
    Again I'm not seeking any buyers here. I just need an advice. It's an F430 with very low mileage if it would help. The price is 2 times less that I have found on EU or US markets. But if like custom clearance in EU is 30k eur then there is no idea of buying the car. Can anyone help me with the link to calculate customs clearance prices in EU countries?
     
  9. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Oct 9, 2016
    3,535
    SO CAL
    Full Name:
    GINO RUGGIERO
    Oh boy ...

    Thank you
     
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  10. Zanetti

    Zanetti Rookie

    Nov 3, 2020
    27
    Full Name:
    Andrey Pikhov
    Paulchua, I know it would sound like a scam or something. But again I'm not selling anything here, just need an advice if I can resell that car later for some margin :)
     
  11. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    16,602
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    #11 paulchua, Nov 3, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
    Darn, I was hoping you would cut me in the deal exporting to the USA.

    It's okay; I totally understand. So a few questions:

    1) Is it a clean title?
    2) How many miles?
    3) 6 speed or F1?
    4) Any accidents?
    5) When, where, and what was the last service?
    6) Are you allowed a PPI?
    7) What is your country?
    8) What is the VIN?
    9) Reason the guy says he wants to sell his F430 for USD 40,000 only? (60% off a typical F430 F1)
    10)To be clear, you want to export from your country to the EU or US (to make money)?

    Duties in the EU is about 30% for the US it's only 2.5%.

    Individual states in the US have stricter rules like California that need to pass emissions and safety, etc., along with shipping costs.

    Besides #8, you should be able to answer all the other questions without 'giving away' your super deal.
     
  12. Zanetti

    Zanetti Rookie

    Nov 3, 2020
    27
    Full Name:
    Andrey Pikhov
    1. It's clean title I have bought the Vin report.
    2. 6k miles nearly
    3. F1
    4. 99% no, will check tomorrow with
    thickness gauge
    5. In Moscow at 5k miles, haven't seen the details yet. It had 3 owners in Russia, before moving to my country.
    6. No PPI, no Ferrari or Maserati dealers in my country. Can just take it to a Mercedes service, where I am servicing my SL500 and talk with guys, but they have never worked with Ferrari.
    7. Yes, but maybe keep the car if I stay here, again Ferraris are my dream cars. But the chance of staying here for me is very low.
    8. A not developed one.
    9. I have but don't want to post publicly, I am afraid someone will take the deal.
    10. A bit more most probably, he have won it and earns 200$ a month, he wants to sell it and buy an apartment. Economic situation in my country is very bad now and no one needs Ferraris.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  13. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    16,602
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    Thanks for your response.

    Take it to either here or here. Pay for a full PPI.

    If it passes with flying colors, then you're good. I assume you can buy around 50K USD. (based on you stating it's half-off US market price) so say you sell for 70K in the neighboring EU, even with 30% vat/duty that's around 91K - so you make 20K.

    Let us know when you buy it.
     
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  14. Zanetti

    Zanetti Rookie

    Nov 3, 2020
    27
    Full Name:
    Andrey Pikhov
    #14 Zanetti, Nov 3, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
    The car is not in Russia, if it was in Russia I would take it to a dealer, it's in another country. Borders are closed due to corona. As I know the prices in EU will be calculated from their customs office price tags. Let's assume its 100k eur for 2008 and I have heard about 26% percent.
    Price here X+26 k eur price in Germany. What you think is the price that you can sell a Ferrari in a week in Germany. 2008 F430. If it's 100k Eur it's worth buying. If less than 80 than no.

    Maybe anyone can send me a DIY for checking the car by yourself? How much clutch is left, I have heard of some header problems, etc. What are the most common and expensive issues?
     
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  15. Zanetti

    Zanetti Rookie

    Nov 3, 2020
    27
    Full Name:
    Andrey Pikhov
    Also is all the paperwork doable with borders closed :( ?
    In the USA as I know you have to transform the car to US spec. How much would it cost for an F430?
     
  16. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,408
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    very nice...and welcome.
     
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  17. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Looks super clean


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    16,602
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    I apologize; I didn't read your post carefully. I see that it's not in Russia anymore, but your country.

    Is there a Ferrari dealership or reputable Ferrari specialist in your area?

    If you can't get a 3rd party inspection at the very least, it's a full gamble given it's hard to say what the actual condition of the car is. While it looks great, what matters is the mechanical functioning. Even with a PPI, they often miss many things, so those are not even 'foolproof.'

    So, in the end, it all depends on your risk tolerance. Personally, making 20-30K is not that much upside from a risk/reward investment angle. However, buying to say 50K for my own personal enjoyment? Sure.

    Now, here's where we come down to the crux of this post.

    A lot of us are very skeptical, as you acknowledge we should be.

    If you do buy this, great! I expect you to advertise the car with full details and happy to help you move the vehicle. I will even pay for your advertisement price here as a goodwill gesture.

    If you DON'T buy the car, you would surely be gentlemanly enough to provide the details for someone else?

    We'll be all waiting eagerly for your update. Of course, you're not going to just disappear right?
     
  19. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,385
    Eastdown
    Full Name:
    Darius
    Me, I'm trying to guess what country OP is in.

    Our only clues:

    1) They have zero other Ferraris, according to the OP.

    2) They have a need for giant SUVs for either security or weather or both - more likely security.

    3) It is likely towards the European end of the IndoEuropean landmass, judging by the Caucasian males in one picture; and likely to have a connection with Moscow

    4) A subjective observation but I am sure I have seen that fire extinguisher style in eastern Europe (rather than the former Soviet Union) - but could be wrong.

    It would help if we could tell what alphabet the number plates in the background are in. Doesn't look like cyrillic, but could be a number of things.

    So my guesses are: North Macedonia; Moldova; Armenia; in that order. Armenia is at war, but that's an even better reason for evacuating the only Ferrari in the country. I would add Georgia and Belarus except I'm pretty sure they would have other Ferraris in both. I rule out the poorer Central Asian republics, maybe rashly, and the wealthier ones have Ferraris.


    OP I own two 430s and they are great cars, and that one looks like a nice one. But even if it is as good as it looks (very far from certain), no means a dead cert to make you money, and could cost you a lot. The vendor knows what it's worth.
     
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  20. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner

    Aug 25, 2004
    5,882
    Dallas Texas
    Full Name:
    If you know you know
    See attached check list of items you can personally check.

    In addition:
    1. Is the black interior soft touch sticky or tacky when touched?
    2. Clutch wear is important, since you are unable to check it, allow for its replacement.
    3. Service History, assume it hasn't had any, allow for all fluids / filters / belts

    Good Luck in your transaction!

    If you want to private message me the last 6 digits of the VIN, I am happy to check and advise of any open recalls or campaigns!

    Steve
     

    Attached Files:

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  21. Zanetti

    Zanetti Rookie

    Nov 3, 2020
    27
    Full Name:
    Andrey Pikhov
    Hello everyone! Thanks everyone for the support! Going to see the car for the first time either in an hour, or tomorrow morning.
    Paulchua, I appreciate your help a lot. If the guy swaps my car + certain amount of money I have in my head, I'll be in. Otherwise I hope he'll make a discount of 5k more (already selling for 20k less than he was expecting).
    Themaven, photos of the car are in Russia, I have newer photos, but don't want to show.
    Safe4Now, the car was in Russia and was put on auto.ru I have the full inspection record from there, the car has never been to EU or US, and was sold by a Russian dealer. In this case, if you don't have connections to Russian services than maybe no more information can be found. According to report from auto.ru the car is clean and no accidents were found.

    Will check for the service records for sure.
    What is your guess for a price in Germany for the car (2008 with 10k kilometres). Is it close to 100k eur/120 k USD?
     
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  22. Zanetti

    Zanetti Rookie

    Nov 3, 2020
    27
    Full Name:
    Andrey Pikhov
    Regarding checking

    1 Sticky buttons - easy to check
    2. How to check the clutch remaining?
    3. Tires (if they are 2008 it's maybe a good sign)
    4. All the windows
    5 What is a header and how to check it?

    any other things and how to check them?
    Also connecting the car to computer and reading the errors can help or no?
     
  23. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    16,602
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    Hi @Zanetti, given whoever buys in Germany, will most likely ask for proof of condition with a PPI. If the area you're in has no such facilities, it may be challenging to sell the car. After all, if the drivetrain or frame has something critically wrong, everything is moot. The only way to give at least a somewhat reasonable assessment is with a qualified specialist. Your word will not be enough for most people.

    Cross border trade is notoriously tricky, and buying a car 'sight unseen' makes this endeavor one extra layer more difficult.

    Perhaps what one can do is 'purchase' the car and use an established broker/dealership to handle the sell the vehicle for you on consignment. Basically, you'll be paying whatever organization to give you the credibility and assurance for a foreign buyer. An established dealer should also be able to help with the paperwork.
    I would argue a car like this would go for ~100K Euros in Germany. (I am eager to be corrected, just my back of the napkin, shooting from the hip estimate.)
     
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  24. Zanetti

    Zanetti Rookie

    Nov 3, 2020
    27
    Full Name:
    Andrey Pikhov
    Paulchua, firstly going to see the car in half an hour, please keep fingers crossed and back me with some advices :)
    I'm thinking of transporting it to Germany or USA paying the customs and selling there. All this is extremely difficult due to the closed borders. Only the transportation would cost I think somewhere around 4-5k.
    In USA customs are low, so the thing I have to pay is remodeling, yes?
    Germany is closer, and I have looked for the prices on mobile, the cheapest F430 with under 20k miles is 90k eur. If I manage to sell it for even 100k usd, minus 30k on taxes, I would still make profits. If I manage to sell it for 80 I would be on 0. Also, do you think the car is depreciating or appreciating now?
     
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