Lamborghini estimates $450 million to make their V12 compliant with Euro 7 emissions rules IMO don't see them or Ferrari spending that kind of money to keep them around. So with that One begs the question how long will production N/A V-12's be sold for and when would be a good opportunity to buy one ? Link to an interesting article below https://www.automobilemag.com/news/lamborghini-fighting-aventador-v12-engine/
V12 Ferraris range from $50k to $50m with options at every price point in between so it’s always a good time to get one!
Get ahead of the curve, once more people catch on to this situation, future V12 inventory will dwindle and at some point, probably 5 years out, prices will ramp up as the full effect is felt; that's my conjecture as this has never occurred before...recall, at this moment, Ferrari no longer makes the 812SF (coupe) and no known replacement exists...and where are the test mules? Lots of unknowns, but, we should know by end of year what VW's plans are for Lamborghini...
IMO the most collectable production Ferrari's will be the last batch made before discontinuation of the N/A V12 First thing comes to mid how well the 458's are doing compared to other models although they do depreciate from new MSRP value but the big question is what is good time to get in for the long run
Maybe Lambo and Ferrari should just sell V12s to everyone but Europe, they can still be profitable . If they stop building them all together , I believe there will be plenty of good used V12s to go around. What do you fellows think ? Thank you
A good time was 8 years ago when a Countach was a $100k car and a Diablo Roadster was $75k. A Boxer was like $90k. Ferrari makes ALOT of front mounted V-12s so you probably have time there. For me, the optimum configuration is a V-12 paired with a gated manual (with bonus points for a convertible).
My fear is that some states (CA for example) will just flat outlaw them for legal road use eventually. Or tax them out of existence.
Without wishing to cause to much of a P&R diversion having elected a new president who is committed to rejoining Paris climate the US will have to lose V12s too as a consequence
Certainly some states, e.g. CA, can do outlandish things, but I expect V12s will be neither outlawed nor taxed inordinately. There will be so few on the road as years go by there will be far more used car battery pollution than V12 pollution.
Bob, I'm agreeing with you. I'm saying except for CA I don't expect states to outlaw or overly tax V12's.
As I understand the 812 successors will still be a NA V12 with no electric assist. Corrections encouraged.
It's already going to happen, but I think there will be some exceptions for 'collector cars.' Just my guess.
[QUOTE="JTSE30, post: 147562691 Lots of unknowns, but, we should know by end of year what VW's plans are for Lamborghini...[/QUOTE] Maybe a Lambo Beetle?
Euro 7 emissions rules will probably start in 2025 demanding emissions be cut in half how in the world will Ferrari do that with a Massive N/A V-12 ? https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/new-euro-7-emission-standard-in-eu#:~:text=The%20EU%20Commission%20wants%20to,a%20fateful%20year%20for%20automakers.
2025 deadline appears to be unrealistic, raw material production is not able to ramp that quickly and will not for a long time (i.e. minerals used in EV batteries): (See 'Conclusions' in paper linked here: ) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7545311/ and https://www.usitc.gov/publications/332/working_papers/gvc_overview_scott_ireland_508_final_061120.pdf and, even it somehow the raw material feedstock existed, battery production is not scaled to support and, even if none of those issues were present, where will the surplus electricity production originate? You do realize that the UK is already being held hostage due to its inability to produce sufficient electricity for its present needs... https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/10/21/french-president-macron-threatens-a-devastating-electricity-embargo-against-renewables-obsessed-britain/ The only apparent result of fast-tracking Euro 7 is to destroy car manufacturers by either fining them into oblivion or reducing their production to whatever the number of battery packs they can secure (which will be far less than their current output, this article thinks production of approx. 10million 60kwh battery packs per year starting next year, but current demand is more than 80m per year...) https://www.industryweek.com/technology-and-iiot/article/22026518/lithium-batteries-dirty-secret-manufacturing-them-leaves-massive-carbon-footprint So, hopefully exceptions will happen...but then there are the noise restrictions...
Ferrari is heavily looking into biofuels/synfuels as is the F1 world. Louis Camilleri mentioned the importance of that in the last business analysts call. This is for sure the only viable way to go in the longer term. However the mid term future indeed seems to be very challenging with the upcoming regulations.
I'm with you on ramp up for EV will take a while and 2025 will Not be the end of ICE My only point is emissions will be cut significantly question is can a big V12 survive seems like BMW is abandoning it and maybe Merc will too and those are Turbo charged which helps in meeting emissions an N/A V12 probably would have it much more difficult
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/298866-daimler-will-pull-the-plug-on-gasoline-diesel-engines-focus-on-evs
Also may governments have set deadlines for ICE with that in mind I cant see V-12's lasting more than several years https://www.autoblog.com/2020/11/17/quebec-ban-new-cars-internal-combustion-2035/
I believe the penalty is a fine correct? It would be akin to a heftier ‘gas guzzler’ tax, passed on to the consumers...so nothing new, albeit more expensive. Just my understanding, open to being corrected.