355 - Cambelt drive pulley bearing replacement | FerrariChat

355 Cambelt drive pulley bearing replacement

Discussion in '348/355' started by berlinetta f355, Nov 6, 2020.

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  1. berlinetta f355

    Jan 11, 2015
    48
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Trevor Skutezky
    Hi. My first contact. I have a 1995 f355 and am doing an engine out service. I want to replace the cambelt drive pulley bearings and associated seals. I believe I must drop the oil sump and then remove the front cover. Or is there a special bearing puller that would allow me to avoid dropping the sump and removing the front cover?
    If I must remove the front cover, does it easily separate from the drive pulley shafts?
     
  2. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2004
    7,674
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bruce Bogart
    Pan must come off. Will require persuasion. Be extra careful though as oil pump drive chain tensioner is involved as well.
     
  3. berlinetta f355

    Jan 11, 2015
    48
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Trevor Skutezky
    Thanks for the info. Once the pan is off, does the front cover slide easily off the pulley shafts? Are there any other pitfalls?
     
  4. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2004
    7,674
    Redondo Beach, CA
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    Bruce Bogart
    Nope. You'll remove the woodruff key from the shaft(s) and pry the cover off. Watch the oil pump drive mechanism as you do. I think you'll need to remove the pulley from the pump drive. Working from memory here, so watch yourself. You may need a ringnut socket for the belt pulleys. Ricambi will have it if needed.
     
  5. berlinetta f355

    Jan 11, 2015
    48
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Trevor Skutezky
    I already removed the ring nut with a borrowed tool. Was easy with an impact driver. Why a ring nut? What is the matter with an old fashioned hexnut?!! If I understand correctly, once the woodruff key is out, the front cover should slide off the cam drive shafts with the inner and outer races of the bearing.
    The pump drive pulley you are referring to is the drive sprocket for the chain?
     
  6. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2004
    7,674
    Redondo Beach, CA
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    Bruce Bogart
    It's Italian. They like their ringnuts.
    yes
     
  7. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,662
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Remove the ring nuts
    Remove the woodruff keys
    Release the tension off the oil pump drive by fiddling with the pad locking device
    Pry (sometimes hard) the front cover off and a number of possibilities will happen. If you are lucky, the rear bearings will stay with the engine while the cover and front bearings come with. If you are not happy, some combination of things will come and some stay.
    Then, figure out how to press the shaft off the bearings, and the bearings off the cover.
    Have fun. It's not an easy job.
     
  8. berlinetta f355

    Jan 11, 2015
    48
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Trevor Skutezky
    Thanks for the help and guidance. The engine is out so I will have to lift it to gain access to the oil pan. Not a problem because I inherited a nice fork lift truck a few years ago. I have a nice Canadian Tire hydraulic press for the bearing and shaft removal. I will start to attack it today and will let you know how it goes.
     
  9. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2004
    7,674
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    Bruce Bogart
    What Mitch said, plus....
    You'll probably need a blind hole bearing puller for the bearings in the block. HF has them.
     
  10. berlinetta f355

    Jan 11, 2015
    48
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Trevor Skutezky
    Thanks for the heads up but I wasn't going to change the bearings in the block. They reside in a well lubricated domain. I am changing the outer bearings because one of them was leaking oil which indicated that the grease seals were faulty and allowed oil to find its way past it. I opened the bearing and there was only a trace of grease remaining. I managed to remove the front cover this morning and press the old bearings out. Thanks for your help.
     
  11. berlinetta f355

    Jan 11, 2015
    48
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Trevor Skutezky
    I managed to remove the front cover this morning. I backed off the nut securing the chain sprocket to the oil pump and then slowly pried the cover. The RH shaft stayed with the block and the LH shaft and gear stayed with the cover. As such, there is interference between the gear and the chain drive sprocket on the crankshaft so it is essential that the drive sprocket slides forward on the crankshaft as the cover moves forward. Once the cover is far enough forward, the pump pulley can slide off the pump shaft. The RH shaft that stayed with the block did need a little persuasion to slide out of the inside of the bearing. As the cover moved forward, I placed some wooden shims in the space created between the cover and the block. I then gently tapped the shaft back with a bronze drift. In hind sight I should have done the same thing with the LH shaft. All appears to be fine. I not sure what is the best way to assemble, but I'm sure I'll figure that out. I am in no hurry as winter will soon be upon me here in Montreal.
     
  12. berlinetta f355

    Jan 11, 2015
    48
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Trevor Skutezky
    I managed to remove the front cover this morning. I backed off the nut securing the chain sprocket to the oil pump and then slowly pried the cover. The RH shaft stayed with the block and the LH shaft and gear stayed with the cover. As such, there is interference between the gear and the chain drive sprocket on the crankshaft so it is essential that the drive sprocket slides forward on the crankshaft as the cover moves forward. Once the cover is far enough forward, the pump pulley can slide off the pump shaft. The RH shaft that stayed with the block did need a little persuasion to slide out of the inside of the bearing. As the cover moved forward, I placed some wooden shims in the space created between the cover and the block. I then gently tapped the shaft back with a bronze drift. In hind sight I should have done the same thing with the LH shaft. All appears to be fine. I not sure what is the best way to assemble, but I'm sure I'll figure that out. I am in no hurry as winter will soon be upon me here in Montrea
     
  13. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2004
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    Bruce Bogart
    Good work!
     
  14. berlinetta f355

    Jan 11, 2015
    48
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Trevor Skutezky
    Do you know if the pad for the oil pump chain tensioner is available? My pad looks OK but it is 25 years old. The whole tensioner is quite expensive.
     
  15. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2004
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    Bruce Bogart
    I think Dave Helms at Scuderia Rampante made some a few years ago. Check with him.
     
  16. KevZep

    KevZep Formula Junior

    Feb 17, 2020
    563
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Kevin Bennett
    You can get them from Scuderia Rampante, but they are not cheap.
    I got one earlier this year, they make them to order.
     
  17. berlinetta f355

    Jan 11, 2015
    48
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Trevor Skutezky
    I contacted Scuderia Rampante and Kriss Helms informed me that they are still working on it. Did he provide the entire tensioning unit to you?
     
  18. Kokose7en

    Kokose7en Karting

    Dec 5, 2019
    207
    SF Bay Area
    I think that “well-oiled bearings” you’re referring to failed on this other engine someone posted about. He did a full engine rebuild because of it.

    In its location, I too thought, it doesn’t look like it will ever fail. But looking at the design, It’s rotating at the same speed with the crank and with tension against 2x camshafts on just ball bearings.

    It might be a very rare failure(I hope that is ever the only failure), but it’s a documented failure. Especially while you’re already this deep and can actually touch them, DO those bearings.




    Or not, lol
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/toda-take-spec-355-rebuild.628631/
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    Agreed. There's no reason not to change them (IMHO) now that you've got everything apart.

    2 x 171177
    and as long as the whole thing is apart and you're doing oil pump tensioner stuff, 2 x 170787 (Hill Engineering)
     
  20. berlinetta f355

    Jan 11, 2015
    48
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Trevor Skutezky
    I have ordered the bearings. What is the rick to pulling the drive gears from the crankcase bearings?
     
  21. berlinetta f355

    Jan 11, 2015
    48
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Trevor Skutezky
    BTW I bought the drive pulley bearings P/N 170787 from my local Ferrari dealer (Ferrari Quebec). I don't know if they made a error in pricing, but I paid CAD$78.00 each (US$60.00) as opposed to $US139.00 or CAD$182,00 They are OEM sourced.
     
  22. berlinetta f355

    Jan 11, 2015
    48
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Trevor Skutezky
    I have done some more research and I believe the bearings I received from the local dealer are rebuilt units. I will attempt to return them and purchase the Hill Engineering bearings. I did manage to remove the driver gears using a simple puller I constructed. I had to modify the blind bearing puller to remove the crankcase bearings. Th ID of the bearings was slightly smaller than the closest mandrel. After grinding about 1/16 inch off the OD of the mandrel it pulley the bearing out very nicely. BTW my first attempt at making a puller for the drive gears was to use a hexnut that would screw onto the end of the shaft in place of the ringnut. It turns out that the thread of the ringnut and shaft falls between M16 and M18. It appears M17 is not readily available if at all. Everything is ready for reassembly once I have all the parts.
     
  23. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    They're not really 'rebuilt' per se. They are brand new bearings, 'remanufactured' by some unknown factory in some unknown country, with some unknown components.

    They might have been the greatest thing since peanut butter & jelly --- but without industry standard markings on the outer race, it's just impossible to know. Several members here experienced less-than-steller performance with those bearings where they failed within a few hundred miles. Some were wildly overpacked with grease* and some had misfitting seals. Conversely, I'll bet plenty of cars are running on those bearings without any issues whatsoever. In other words, without batch numbers and traceability, it's near impossible to know how the bearing you have might perform. That's an expensive gamble.

    Sure, I'd like to sell you 2x of the Hill 170787 bearings.... but even if you don't buy them them from Ricambi America, just be certain to put something in your car that you can trace.


    * Even the Hill Engineering bearings can throw out some grease during the first few hundred miles. As long as the integrity of the seals hasn't been compromised, it's not something to worry about.
     
  24. berlinetta f355

    Jan 11, 2015
    48
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Trevor Skutezky
    Thanks for the feedback. I will see if the dealer will take the bearings in exchange for Hill Engineering bearings. I appreciate your feedback very much.
     

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