Is the DeTomaso 70P being shown around Los Angeles real or replica? | FerrariChat

Is the DeTomaso 70P being shown around Los Angeles real or replica?

Discussion in 'Other Italian' started by bitzman, Mar 19, 2019.

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  1. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie
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    I think the first time I saw it was at the Palos Verdes concours in 2013 when it won a Motor Trend award for the best classic. It has been mistakingly identified in some websites as a Vallelunga roadster but the spine framed car bodied by Fantuzzi was always planned to be a V8.
    I thought I saw its designer, Pete Brock, walk by it at some show and say out aloud to no one in particular: "not bad for a cooy" But then more recently at the last Art Center College of Design concours he was appearing with the car.

    I have seen pictures of a similar car called a Sport 5000 at a racetrack,back in period, but not actually racing, Maybe it is one of those with a few street type updates? I don't blame Brock for appearing with the P70 even if it is a replica because he can still take credit for a daring design (biggest innovation, wrap- around spoiler that he originally wanted to introduce on the Daytona coupe) . But with DeTomaso factory records being among the sloppiest of any car company I've visited (making it difficult to ascertain fact form fiction) , I wonder what's the story on this car, whose owner is sometimes listed as Mark Moshayedi? Is it the real thing or a modern day repllica? I ask because it ift s real it could be worth almost as much as the Serenissima Spyder (whcih sold for over $4 million in 201( though thqt car had proven LeMans history.

    As I was looking for pictures I found a picture from the rear of two similar cars , the pictures from Japan but can't tell from the back if they are both 70P ars or if one is a Sport 5000 or if it is a DeTomaso 1000, a smaller car.
    Any opinions?


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  2. Mang

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    I did some car swapping with James Phelan from Virginia back in the 80’s - at the time he was 1/2 owner in one of these cars. It had Lambo power if I am not mistaken. He had a nice collection of cars...Mistral, AC 289 Cobra, Mangusta, Countach, etc. I have a photo somewhere of his cars in a commercial building with wood floors. The car referenced was a ‘P538’ designation. All from memory decades ago.
     
  3. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie
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    You are thinking of a rival at the time, the Bizzarrini P538. A car that actually was entered at LeMans and raced (remembered for spinning out at the start and going the wrong way--Oops!) It is natural Bizzarrini would choose a Lambo V12 as he had designed that particular V12. But this DeTomaso's racing pedigree is what I am raising a question about.There is one picture of it racing but it could have been pushed by humans off camera, there are no other race cars around it. Maybe it was the Sport 5000 that Businello raced in the Mugello Grand Prix but until I see an entry list or pictures with other cars round it I won't take that "racing" picture as documentation. One source even says the car made it in the race but didn't even lat one full lap. By the way the difference between the side view in the picture with the single seater in the foreground and the other cars is that Ghia screwed up the first incarnation of the 70P and Pete Brock took the chassis down to Fantuzzi and had him do another body to his liking.
     
  4. Mang

    Mang F1 Veteran
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    Oops I completely mistook the car referenced, apologies. I do LOVE the styling on these - just insanely cool! At one time I owned a modded Mangusta and was fussing around gathering wheel variants and building sets. I always longed for a wider ‘campy’ Mangusta wheel as were featured on these and a few other prototype DeTomaso cars. 10” wide on these up front and 12” I believe in the rear. A batch became available from notorious dealer known in this site and I almost pulled the trigger, but after studying the offering - yes there were a sets of wide wheels, none were a matched set, shame.
     
  5. Prugna

    Prugna Formula 3

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    Peter Brock is a very approachable person, and I think you could just email him. Your question and observations are intriguing.

    https://bre2.net/contact-us/
     
  6. DenisC

    DenisC Formula 3

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    1st note, the 5th picture from top was a F*up, who ever bodied that car (Not Fantuzzi built according to P Brock) messed-up in dimensions and there was no room for a driver between the bulkhead and steering wheel and no room for a V8

    I have it from a reliable source, the original bodywork was removed as regulations had changed in 1966 requiring the original Sport5000 (version 1.0) to be reworked creating Sport5000 (version 2.0). In 2004 when the Factory contents were sold, the front and rear sections were re-attached on newly build made to look old components to re-create a vintage car. The seller VDV Grant could never produce any restoration pictures, yet that car did not exist a few months before. They would not allow a thorough ppi at the time and claimed the non-original motor had been blown at a recent track meet. A potential buyer has proof that both the P70 and Sport5000 (as they are know today) were registered with the same certificate of origin.

    There are no vintage photos or film to support the Bussinello - Mugello event, pure smoke in mirror.
     
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  7. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie
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    I always had doubts about the racing pictureof the Sport 5000 because there are no other cars around it and no background of crowds or flags that make it look like a race, The car could have even been a non runner, and pushed by people off-screen into the camera and photographed at a slow shutter speed DeTomaso built morr race cars that never raced than mos Italian car builders...
     
  8. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie
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    Denis C.
    Please write me (can't figure out how to PM) as I am trying to find out of the 70P being sold is the real thing because I found an article that says a chassis was built for the leftover body i n 2004. I can send you that article. I'd still like to know what happened to the first body. I'm reachable at [email protected]
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  9. bitzman

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    Now on Facebook I see this notorious individual is connected with one these two DeTomaso cars, he's already criticized on Facebook for faking Bizzarrinis,one Bizzarrini America BA4110 constructed by a famous Bizzarrini body shop , Diomante, Ironically this fake was for Sale at Retromobile 2020 !!!
     
  10. DenisC

    DenisC Formula 3

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    Ta dum. !
     
  11. Lobo7

    Lobo7 Karting

  12. DenisC

    DenisC Formula 3

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    #15 DenisC, Dec 26, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
    no question, that car did exist once in that configuration. the vehicle shown today is not built with the same, the car in 2021 has some body panels and much much much fabrication.
     
  13. angemana

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    Wallace, not very friendly to insult people, may be you want to share with us clear evidences of your attacks ?
    Concerning the P70, everythings have been clearly describe in the official book of Olczyk and the book of Peter Brock, are you jalous of theses 2 very good books ? https://www.amazon.com/Road-Modena-Origins-History-Shelby/dp/0989537226
     
  14. angemana

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    I have it from a reliable source, which one as your comments are full of lies
    Same certificate of origin ? It s a lie , you see, I m quite clear ! I dont spread lies or gossips but proofs, you should do the same , are youi going to present your excuses ?
    Any restoration pictures ? a other lie as hundreds exist and can be seen with the register de tomaso
    newly build made to look old components to re-create a vintage car ? a other lie, but may be you want to show proofs of your attacks ? as me, i show you the original invoice from the factory.
    Resume, when you dont known, you dont talk because now everybody see that you lie and you destroy your reputation if you had one !
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  15. 3500 GT

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    Really? Care to point those out to support your claim?
     
  16. 3500 GT

    3500 GT Formula 3

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  17. Lobo7

    Lobo7 Karting

    Hi 3500 GT
    Yes, the 5000 S was first started by Fantuzzi and when De Tomaso had no money, the Ghia finished the car. My friend from Modena worked on De Tomaso 5000 S. Regards Lobo7
     
  18. angemana

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    Lol, so many untrue stories, Fantuzzi made both cars, I have seen the Fantuzzi invoices, DT was using Ghia name to promote it, like many companies, the real job was done by other with real qualifications. Why so many try to modody the truth ? Why so many people lie by inventing untrue stories ? to look good ? Ego ? to feel special ? All the storie about P70 and 5000 was documented by Brock and Olczyk, all originals documents exist, but for some reasons, a special type of person want to believe that Elvis Presley is still alive or that the P70 and the 5000 are the same car even if all the prooofs show the opposite
     
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  19. angemana

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    P70 !
     
  20. angemana

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    Before restoration the P70 still had the original paint untouch from 1965 and the 5000 Sport is today with the same untouch original paint. If you have a minimum a experience, you see it , now if you leave with Elvis Presley, I will understand that you have some concerns
     
  21. angemana

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  22. 3500 GT

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    #25 3500 GT, Dec 28, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021

    Hello you seem to not understand.

    You posted photos of the DT P70 which the history is well known. You labeled the car as the DT Sport 5000.

    That’s incorrect, the photos are of the P70.

    Here they are again. Copywrite ASA Fair public research.


    I’m correcting your mislabeled post on S5000 photos. History is well and documented.

    With all due respect, this is not the first time you’ve posted and misidentified cars in the photos.

    If I’m wrong..my apologies.
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