A change at the helm and a chance to rethink | Page 2 | FerrariChat

A change at the helm and a chance to rethink

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by czlandi, Dec 14, 2020.

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  1. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
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    i dont think i am in disagreement with this ^ post

    i guess i was just empathizing with the OP, that he has taken a massive depreciation hit....but i also think he should have known that was going to happen.....
     
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  2. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    Texas!
    Come on, Ross. Tell us how you fell. I don't disagree... :eek:
     
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  3. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    That's a quote from the "Pogo" comic strip, by Walt Kelly...

    It's actually Albert the alligator, comforting poor Pogo, about some life mishap, in the Okefenokee Swamp.
    It is a great line.
     
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  4. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    For sure.

    Also with the car market we have all been spoiled with appreciation or low depreciation.

    But the fact is that ride might be over or at least suspended for a while.

    Cars are better than they have ever been and we are in the twilight years of the internal combustion engine... Lots of phenomenal cars to enjoy and buy.

    We are all very lucky.
     
  5. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    #30 Marcel Massini, Dec 17, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
    I have always wondered what makes people think that a car (any car!) should increase in value or at least have only very little depreciation. Cars are not commodities. They are just cars. You buy them, you use them, they lose value. The most normal thing in the world. With any object.
    I have never purchased anything with values/prices in mind. I never cared if I lose money or not, after all, I consider it absolutely normal that even with a new Ferrari you will automatically lose money (the day you take delivery of it, expect to lose the first 30%). Do I care? No, I don't. I buy these cars to reward myself and to enjoy and to have fun. Life is too short. If you wanna play you have to pay. It has always been like this. If you can't afford to lose money and don't want to lose anything, don't buy a car. Just stay at home.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  6. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 6, 2003
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    I think you could make the argument that the Dino/GT4/308 line fit most of that description. Now they've gotten more complicated and tech heavy.
     
  7. day355

    day355 Formula 3

    Jun 25, 2006
    2,058
    You are forgetting an essential notion: the current regulation standards in terms of noise and C02.
    Ferrari is trying to buy time, but we know that everything will collapse like a castle of cards, because this brand which has nothing to do with that of the 2000s today will not stand up to the end of thermal engines.
    Regardless of the CEO, it can speed things up or slow things down at best.
    Personally, I think that in 20 years max the brand no longer exists.
     
  8. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    So first I want to say I appreciate the discussion... And I am by no means the end all be all of anything ferrari or anything period...

    This is just a discussion so the following is just my take on it.

    The 308 was still priced above the 911 and the performance was meh. So I get the somewhat comparison. But it's not linear.

    The 308 is the 458 or 488 of today. A lot of people.like to pretend it isn't. But the f8 488 458 as great as they are is/was the entry level ferrari sports car... As was the 308. They were the volume sports cars.

    The 308gt4 was just an odd duck.

    The original dino I do believe was a 911 ish attempt but that's also why it was a dino and not a Ferrari. It was a separate line.
     
  9. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    The most recognized brand in the world? Ya... Probably not... You do realize ferrari sells more t shirts than nike right ? (Ok I made that last part up) they aren't just an automobile company. They truly are a brand and because of that I think they are well positioned to move forward because people buy the brand these days.

    As lame as it sounds they will fair better than aston and lambo because they are so much bigger as a brand than all of them.

    Plus you seem to think that ferrari isn't going to do electric.

    They are working with maté at rimac on battery and ev tech. They are adapting.
     
  10. day355

    day355 Formula 3

    Jun 25, 2006
    2,058
    #35 day355, Dec 17, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
    That was exactly the meaning of my thoughts, Ferrari will not survive the electrification of the range.
    there is no long-term market for an electric Ferrari range, once the novelty has passed.
    When they are forced to electrify the range, the end process will be initiated.
    there is no lasting demand for a battery-powered Ferrari, which will look like all the other brands and with the weight of history as a handicap, because the loss of the engine is the loss of its main characteristic and its soul ...
    If Patek produces some kind of Apple watch, are you going to buy it again ?
    There is nothing noble in an electric battery, and the same is in my refregirator...
    On the other hand, I still have not found a V 12 in a household appliance ...
     
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  11. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    You are over simplifying the ev. You think they are all the same. They won't be.

    What's a better vehicle a tesla model x or an Audi e tron? The model x destroys a audi. Absolutely destroys it.

    This EV thing is not a given. It is not just a battery and a motor. Just like a vw bug is not the same as a 911. Despite both coming from the same company with air cooled engines and sharing boat loads of parts.

    You have completely over simplifyed the ev game.

    I've built 3 evs from scratch. There are major major differences
     
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  12. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!
    Well said.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  13. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    All is not lost,
    Toyota Chairman said yesterday that the full electrics cars have no future.
    Synthetic fuels could save our beloved V12 !
     
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  14. day355

    day355 Formula 3

    Jun 25, 2006
    2,058
    And so ???
    Reducing a Ferrari to its hp, I think we are not talking the same language ...
    I just learned that an electric battery; as big as it is, it is as exciting as a Ferrari V12 ... It just goes to show that we learn every day !!!
    Why not go to a Watchmaking forum to explain to them that an Apple watch is most exiting than a Patek?
     
  15. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    #40 technom3, Dec 18, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2020
    Ehh I don't think you get the context of my argument. And I get that. Or perhaps I don't get the context of your argument. Or rather am.missing it.

    So... What I was referring to is the poster stating that with electric motors there is almost no difference. All cars are going to be the same.

    So I provided an example of how that is absolutely not the case. There are differences in performance etc...

    So I was just trying to say that just like now... The difference between a vw beetle and a porsche 911 might not seem like lots on paper but in reality the execution makes all the difference

    So the "ferrari" difference can STILL exist when it comes to powertrains... So the ferrari-ness won't change or rather the ferrari difference


    I agree with your patek vs apple watch comparison... Patelk AP rolex... Etc... All still exist and do well despite the apple watch being 8 billion time more functional. The good news is... Not everything is about ultimate function


    And exactly to your point or rather our point since we are on the same page...

    Ferrari has been out done by better more functional cars for decades. But none of that applies.
     
  16. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
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    Dec 19, 2004
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    I am going to send my CV to Ferrari for the role.

    I have run companies in the past. I have some good ideas how to digitize/monetize/stremline the sales process. But most importantly I am a lifelong car guy.

    I would commit to the following:

    1) Bring back manuals, throughout the line.
    2) Lower price of options- no more $3000 cupholders. We will raise the base price of the vehicle and stop insulting everyone's intelligence with silly option prices.
    3) Cancel the SUV and/or any other 4-door program.
    4) Cap production at 8,000 cars per year.
    5) No longer offer shields as an option on non-hyper cars.
    6) Regularly consult FChat for fresh ideas.
    7) End the full maintenance and long term warranties. Real sports car guys should know the feeling of going to pick up their car after a routine service and they say, "Your bill is $5,000." That should get rid of a lot of the posers. Kind of give the new car crowd that vintage car experience.
    8) No more station wagons like the FF/Lusso.
    9) No more artificially limited special models. We will build what we can.

    I will do all of this for them for 250K Euros Net per year, plus one new Ferrari of my choice each year. That's fair. And I only need 2 weeks vacation per year. I normally work late and weekends, and don't complain.
     
  17. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    great post.
     
  18. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Lol my thoughts exactly...many more! But I'd always prefer vintage to new....watches, cars, clothes...you name it.
     
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  19. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Hired. Lol
     
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  20. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    And then 15 years after that the broke artist with a debilitating passion for vintage sport cars buys it for $125k. :)
     
  21. BusterX

    BusterX Karting

    Aug 24, 2016
    56
    Will they survive? I think so.

    But the EV revolution will be the commoditization of drivetrains. Differentiation based on exterior/interior design and quality will still be there, but it will greatly diminish the appeal of expensive cars and de-stratify the car market in general.
     
  22. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    75,386
    Texas!
    You’re street walker level. I’m penthouse, baby. I make everybody pay and pay.

    First condition is a F1 seat.
    Second condition is I win every race. Nobody will be allowed to pass me.
    Third condition is I own every 250 GTO. I want them painted pink and given out to Mary Kay sales people.
    Fourth condition is mandatory recalls of every F1 car. They will be crushed.
    Fifth condition is annual production will be limited to five cars. MSRP will be one billion.

    There’s more, but this will do for starters.



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  23. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula 3

    Jul 15, 2012
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    Art
    A strong brand depends on its strength to survive and retain control in its marketplace.
    And by strong I mean tightly managed and controlled.
    To remain strong a brand needs to hew close to its core values that its market recognizes.
    The brand's 'core values' must be clearly defined and respected above all else.

    Whether the brand 'thrives' depends on the definition chosen by the brand's management..
    - 'thrive' can mean it remains a market-leading, respected, valued product for eternity.
    - or 'thrive' can mean it is profitable for owners and its duration depends on markets, trends, and investment influences.

    I think Ferrari has made some choices that strategically appear to reduce both control and strength (going public is one of them. Increasing volume is another), but they've done so very carefully and without losing any of their significance as a market force.
    Q: Will a 458 ever enjoy being valued like a 275/GTB?
    A: I don't think so. Ferrari has built 13,000-15,000 of the 458s vs 330 of the 275/GTB.

    So yes, Ferrari has chosen to move (progress?) beyond their original 'core value' of selling few, barely detuned race cars. They have chosen to widen their offerings, become more of a commodity.. but they still build very exclusive models and put on the Pomp & Circumstance that makes ownership seem a scarce privilege in this day of instant YouTube and Social Media "celebrity".

    That 'commodification' is a pretty smart market to tap into (and suck for depreciation), while they polish their image by offering bespoke creations with real exclusivity to billionaires with bottomless wallets... but it comes at the expense of losing loyal, traditional Ferrari customers who value the performance and style, not the 'celebrity'.

    If market trends and fortunes change, and if their CEO is clear-sighted enough, the brand can adapt and change course.

    As much as I think of Ferrari as the Chevy of Italian exotics, I must remind myself that Chevy is still highly relevant and successful in the automotive market.

    Just my two Lira,
    - Art
     
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  24. ZORRO212

    ZORRO212 Rookie

    Dec 12, 2008
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    Steve
    Good Luck in buying a year old 812 Superfast for $250,000.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  25. RMSK

    RMSK Rookie

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    He would be in a very long line!!
     

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