Market Prices 575 Manual vs 575 F1 (conversion costs) vs 550?

@enesset - This discussion and the information you are providing are super helpful - especially for those of us new to the market.

Looking at the BaT auction results for the 575m - they seem fairly in line with the Hagerty prices. Low mileage, well-documented, garage queens seem to land in the high 90s to low 100s. Higher mileage drivers seem to fall in the 80s. However, the BaT sample size is pretty small -about 20 cars over the last couple years- so hard to really make any conclusions.

You are tracking this much more closely than I am, so curious to get your thoughts on BaT v Hagerty. v Private market prices.

BTW, I also spoke w Tom (argento 575) and agree that he seems like a very good guy and his car seems like a well-maintained driver. Good option for sure!

 

@enesset - Thanks for this. Super interesting and very much appreciate you taking the time to share your insights and experience. Your explanation re pricing is really helpful -please keep sharing what you learn!

You raise some really good points re purchasing a car wo PPI on BaT. Your story about the DART 427 sounds painful! Let me try to explain my reasoning for buying it:

In Vermont, we tend to look at cars differently than guys would in California. We have some great driving roads, but, man, this place is tough on cars. A perfect car means every time I take it out, I have to worry about a road chip, stone, pothole -whatever - that is a loss in value. On the other hand, if I buy a car where the cosmetics aren't perfect (priced accordingly), I can enjoy the car more and deal with the cosmetics at the time of sale.

I've been looking for a Maranello (550/575) driver that I could feel comfortable driving on Vermont roads 6 months out of the year and I didn't want to pay a price premium for a perfect exterior that is going to lose value every time a truck throws up a piece of gravel. I am also not hugely interested in some of the popular/valuable 575m options: carbon fiber, FHP, leather shelf etc and did not want to pay extra for them. I do, however, like the modular wheels, which my car has.

I think you are right that the floor on 575s is probably in the mid-60s, so at $69k (well, $72k after BaT fees), I am pretty close to the bottom. I bought a car with no accident history with the expectation that it will need almost certainly need a major service plus some other unanticipated issues that will need to be resolved. This is a car that I am planning to hold on to and put some serious road trip miles on. If the market for good drivers is around $80-85k today and we expect the model to have some modest future appreciation (say 3-5% per year on avg), I might be ok.

The car took forever to be shipped from Texas to Restoration Performance Motors (well-regarded shop here in VT), but it finally arrived in mid-December. Last week I met up with the mechanic, Keith, and RPM owner, Peter. The plan is that RPM is going to try to get the car out for a test drive this week - weather permitting. They will then put it up on the lift and we will start to get a better understanding of where we are at. We have started a list of to-do items - @tazandjan shared some helpful points. I will do a detailed post once I've got more info.

 

I backed out of that bid when it started to run up like that. He did tell me I would get the luggage and luggage covers if I won it, which did eventually come out in the comment section, which I think raised the price. I did notice a couple blemishes that showed up in the last 3 years vs the original listing that disappointed me.

 

Actually, on this particular 575 the seller claimed to have spent $17K+ in on a 30k service 1,500 miles prior (see photo # 183), but he provided no photo of invoices or receipts for the work. Looked like decent car in any case, and any 30K Ferrari is not going to be cosmetically perfectly, but if well-kept probably nice enough.

Maranellos sure seem to be back on an upswing these days, after several years of declining values. BaT does make it easy to track and see what the cars are actually selling for, unlike dealer sites or private sales where you don't know for certain. Like it or not, this gives as clear of pricing signals to the market as you can get, and I suspect that "private market" asking prices will start to rise in line withe the rise in asking prices on dealer sites and what we see these cars selling for on BaT.

It seems to me this general price rise happened almost unnoticed in a rather short period of time, over this past summer and early fall. Only time will tell how far things continue to go. I suspect we'll see more Maranellos will come on the market as sellers try to take advantage of rising market values. At some point supply will outstrip demand and the cycle stall out, as it always does. These are Ferraris, after all, with all the cyclic market fickleness that goes with it.

Regardless, I would personally not buy a $100K+ car (or anywhere close to it) without seeing/driving the car in person, or at the very least having someone I really trust do it for me. Photos can never show everything and there are too many potential "surprises" that can happen otherwise. BaT's standard 7-day auctions make it awfully hard to do this, regardless of documentation, amount of high quality photos, videos, etc. that are offered by sellers.

 

Assuming good prior maintenance with good records, I would always advise buying a Maranello that has been driven, so has some miles on it. You can have the low mile garage queens that are never driven. They'll always need the most work to get them running properly. Makes zero sense to have a car like that and let the damn thing sit while pouring money in it to maintain it (or not, and many of these owners don't), and it deteriorates anyway just sitting there. Electrolysis is a beotch. Maranellos do not take well to sitting un-driven for long periods of time.

There are 3 550s in NE currently that I know of (2 in Omaha, 1 in Lincoln). No idea about what's in IA. Don't know about 575s...have not seen or heard of any around here. These cars are scarce on the street anywhere, you just don't see them often.

Unless one is lucky, pretty much gonna be going well outside of local area here to find a Maranello. Bought mine in Atlanta, after looking at 7 different 550s over about 4 months. Guy in Lincoln (who is an F Chatter) acquired his last summer in Chicago. As he plans to drive his regularly, I'm looking forward to having a 550 buddy to hang with at Saturday C&Cs.

 

You needed to see this one in person. Thi

You needed to see this one in person. It didn’t reflect the price it sold for, just the pour paint work itself gives me the impression the new owner never did a ppi or viewed the car in person.

 

I agree, the price it sold for was quite a lot. Do you compare a 22 yrs old car to a brand new one (550)? Don’t forget that these are cars meant to be driven and enjoyed, and some wear must be expected.

 

I understand. A valve job usually means you do all valves at the same time while you have it apart. And agree with you about the price. But after a few years reading all response to advertizements here and there, it looks like a good 550 must be like new. I think it is pretty unfair. Which other cars look like brand new when they are 20 years old...?! Some patina is more «correct» and shows a caring owner more than a pristine / like new car that might have had lots of work done to it. Some cars are of course «new» by the fact that they have 10.000 miles and can be considdered a real treasure. But then, what is needed to make it work? What about all seals etc..? I am used to cars that are used and work well. That is fine with me.

 

it is an absolute unicorn of a car and probably in excellent like new condition. Should fetch some good 575 money. What I meant is that there is nothing seriously wrong when there are several categories of conditions on the same car model. This enable different types of buyers getting their dream car at various price levels. I just can’t say that a car is a piece of junk or mistreated even if it has some wear her nd there. Look at the quality of these cars. The Ferraris of the 60-ies was not near as good when they were 20 years old in the 80-ies...

 

Mine is an 05 with 23k and like new, inside/out. This one should be pristine. I do wonder about seals , Etc. I know I can take mine cross country without hesitation. That one fit the “collector” mold. Shame. Meant to be driven- but each to his own

 

Does anyone know is this is a reasonable figure or if anyone in the UK does it? I wanted a 550, but the 575s seem more unloved currently (and hence attractive!).

 

@brogenville (Robin) has sucessfully converted his 612 to manual. That's more complex than a 575M. He's in Scotland. Between him and @360trev (he's produced the software to reflash the necessary ECU's) they've got it sorted.

Here's his thread:- https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/a-gearstick-where-once-there-was-none.615514/

We've discussed the realistic possibility of me buying a 575 and him converting it and what it would cost. The final cost is somewhat subject to a few NLA parts that Robin was going to get fabricated so it's a little elastic. We did however arrive at a realistic target at which to aim that we both thought was realistic.

Between us we figured £20K would be realistic, but this would also include a lot of "whilst you're in there you may as well" items. It would make sense to replace the clutch with everything out, also I'd upgrade all compenents available to Hill Engineering items whilst it was all dismantled.

It could probably be done for less if you were mechanically minded and able to take things on yourself. I'm not and I'd be paying Robin for his time and expertise.

I haven't completely discounted this as a possibility, but the appropriate 575 needs to be £20K less than the similar 550 for it all to make sense.

Not much makes sense in the world right now so it's all on the back burner.

 

From what I’ve seen, it’s tough to get a good 550 for less than £100k currently, but there are some £80k 575s which look decent.

It could also be fun to have an F1 car for a year or so and then convert it. Then you have the experience of two cars for the price of one ;-)

 

These are my personal musings on the subject.

It needs to be a sub £60K 575M to make any sense to me as a conversion. TO that end I'd be happy with something missing history etc.

A converted car won't be a readily saleable asset should you wish to move it on, it's going to need to be an enthusiast that doesn't care for provenance. Realistically you're converting to keep the car as a forever car as an alternative to a 550.

I've been looking long enough that I see the same cars going around. I noticed this one back on the market today:-

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1299518 - £75,000

It was sold on Collecting Cars 8th May this year for £54,000 and bought by Justin Banks (dealer). It dissapeared for while and looks like it's been traded out.

This link may still works as it's been removed from CC archives which is something they often do for trade sales so the sale history isn't traceable.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2002-ferrari-575m-maranello



This car is lovely, I drove it in 2018 when it was for sale at Meridian Modena, I offered £90K for it at the time and was knocked back. It's been going through dealers since. It did go through an Auction last year and made a high bid of £59,000 - no sale. So it's popped up at another dealer:-

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1278893

If you're budget is £80k I highly suggest you take a look it this one, it drove beautifully.