360 Brake Flush Problem

Having an issue with the brake flush on my 360.
2001 360 F1 spider.
Motive Power Bleeder. Used multiple times on my prior F355, 348 etc with no issues. Simple and easy to set-up and use.
My 360 appears to be a different story!
Attach Power bleeder. Check pressure. No drift, holds.
Brake fluid in power Bleeder. Pressure to 15psi.
Open bleed screw. Little or no fluid.
Repeated attempts at different wheels. Same result.
Shop flushed 2 years ago, fluid looks fine. Everything clean.
I assume pilot error. Help appreciated!

 

Try the inner bleeder first. It is very common for the external cross over line to be obstructed.

 

It is possible that you need new rubber lines. Also as stated above, the crossover tubes clog frequently. I recommend a thorough cleaning of the calipers. Also, check the reservoir bottom and make sure you don't have a gummy build up. That is common as well and a power bleeder will just force it into the ABS unit and that is not good. I have repaired many 360s with this issue.

 

Thank you MerlinTech! I researched this on the forum and found a post from you detailing "Gel" like brake fluid in 360s about 10 years ago.
Pro flushed the system 3 years ago, not 2(My Bad). Used Shell DOT 4 Brake Fluid.
I bled the Master Cylinder. Fluid now clear.
Will replace lines and flush/clean calipers.

 

Before you go crazy replacing lines, I suggest reversing the procedure. Open one bleeder at the closest wheel to the reservoir and force the fluid backwards. Since all four of your wheels are not bleeding, the clog has to be close to the reservoir. You may be able to force the clog back into the tank and free everything up. I'd try that before replacing all the lines and finding the problem still presents itself.

 

I know people love the motive's but I have always got a better pedal doing it 2 man. If you have no fluid flow 2 man then you have a problem. Also some cars bleed better if engine on because you get more pressure. You have to be more careful. Rubber lines do fail and things can gum up but it is rare, vs. the number of cars with no problems, on even a margianlly serviced brake system.

 

Do the brakes work when you hit the pedal? Do they release when you are off the pedal? Same on all 4 wheels? Mike

 

Afwrench, yes brakes worked fine. No issues. Hard pedal. Pad wear consistent. Same issue all 4 corners.
Researched online. Read many makes with similar issue. Porsche, BMW, Corvette, Ducati, HD etc. all attributed problem to fluid contamination. No idea if mine is the same.
Fluid removed is darker, appears marginally higher in viscosity.
Fatbillybob, plan to try 2 man method next. Bled many cars this way over the years!
Thanks to all for replies.

 

This is becoming a common problem in 360's as they get older, and we have experienced it often. The problem that we've found is that the fluid reservoir falls apart internally, and little plastic white colored pieces migrate down to the caliper crossover pipes and clog them up. Replace the reservoir, remove the cross over pipes and clean them, and the problem should go away and reoccur twenty years from now!
Gary Bobileff

 

Hello Gary, thank you. Will follow your procedure since based on real world experience. Not much more valuable when determining root cause of an odd problem!
Dealt with you years ago. Helped me with a Bobileff customer's '86 Euro Black TR. Put me in touch with the owner(Qualcom exec if I recall correctly). Did the PPI. After sale, I had you do the complete major due, new tires etc. Shipping to MA. Your help was invaluable. Made the buying experience very positive!

 

Update.
Finally had time the last couple of weeks to work on 360 brake issue. My wife's puppy arrive from Germany in December. Limited time!
Gary Bobileff was on the money!
Brake reservoir had deteriorated, contaminating the fluid.
Replaced reservoir.
Removed caliper crossover lines. Cleared.
Cleared calipers.
Flushed and bled 4X to remove contaminated fluid. (Cycled ABS before last 2 flush and bleeds)
Filled with ATE Super Blue to insure fluid change complete(Blue color easy to track)
Pedal hard and firm.
Thank you again for all the help!

 

Accumulated life's knowledge is to be shared !
Gary Bobileff

 

The white crusty substance often found in these is a reaction of moisture and the Shell fluid. Working for a dealer we saw this often and it almost looks like sugar candy. I have only seen this occur with Shell fluid which is the factory fill and what most dealers will use. I have never seen it on the Challenge cars that run Brembo fluid nor have I seen it on cars running alternatives to the Shell products. I have my own shop now and we run either the Brembo or Motul fluids and do not see this issue.

 

Gary, Thank You Again!

Windsock. Interesting observation. Checked brake flush by factory trained tech a couple of years ago. Brake fluid used was Shell brand.

 

Where did you find ATE Super Blue? I thought it had been taken off the market a few years ago.

 

That was going to be my exact question as well.

 

Had 3 quarts in sealed containers from years ago. New product ATE 200? Blue or no color?