Yeah so I am earthing to a bolt on the chassis and it is a good earth. I am just running the car up to 100 and trying to read the temp on the sensor and radiator and I am struggling to get them above 78. Maybe after all this the thermostat may be bad and not completely opening. Or the water pump may not be pumping enough.. there is certainly no more air on the system.
I'm not sure you're understanding my point. You have 3 volts at the relay (I'm assuming the relay has been pulled at this point). There is nothing between the 12 volt battery and the relay other than sections of wire and a fuse. You may have other problems, but the fan won't run with 3 volts. The information you have given me says there is a wiring issue between the fuse and the relay. Until you get proper power at the relay, nothing will happen. Pull the fuse, figure out which is the cold side of the fuse. Then do a resistance check between the cold side of the fuse to the pin 30 (on the relay socket). If it's anything more than a few milliohms, you have a wiring problem. Also make sure you have zero volts at the relay with the fuse pulled.
Thanks Ian. I will try that now. I am not a very good Auto electrician. Thank you for your patience and great advice.
Oh and I just checked the voltage at the relay with the fuse pulled and left is zero but right is oscillating from 0 to .284v and back down to zero pretty quickly. What can that possibly be doing that?
Seems neither am I... I drew out a basic circuit for power (not the control side) ... Image Unavailable, Please Login I suspected that the section of wire marked with the red "X" (after splice S168A) was faulty, but there may be other possibilities. It depends on what was/wasn't connected at the time you did your voltage checks. You said you had 12 volts at the sensor, but, most likely, you had the 3 pin fan plug disconnected to check that voltage. I'm wondering if the sensor is faulty (some kind of a partial short dragging down the voltage at relay pin 30). That might also mean, however, a reduction in voltage at the other fan relay (pin 30). Interesting. What ohms do you get with the ohmmeter leads touching each other? I do see these random voltages from time to time on complex circuits, but I'm wondering if the RH fan sensor (internal) wiring is shorting to something (as it will still be in the circuit with the fuse and relay pulled and the fan connector connected). Maybe you could disconnect the fan plug and recheck the voltage at pin 30? With everything plugged in except the LEFT fan relay, what voltage do you get on the LH relay (pin 30)
Anyone that can draw that is a great Auto Lec! I am going to have to leave the factory now and head home but will pick up tomorrow. I am sure I can find tomorrow with so much info. I rekon the front left fan is shot and could be causing this. I will test that fan tomorrow and see if I can get it to run on 12 volts. Also the temp sensor isn't really a know quantity so I think I should just replace that. Thank you for the diagram. I will study this tonight and hit the car in the morning. Cheers. Dale.
Dale, I just saw your post on the technical forum... https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147652649/ Trying to absorb the new information ...
"............ You said you had 12 volts at the sensor ......" Dale, you should not get +12V at the Sensor. See if you can follow this.......... The Sensor is fed with a Ground (-12V) which nit foreards based on the Rad Temp Image Unavailable, Please Login
Fred, I'm trying to understand where I went wrong with my diagram other than due to the obvious errors in the WSM ... There may be other errors I haven't found yet. Here is the original radiator fan plug in the WSM: Image Unavailable, Please Login The workshop manual shows power going to this plug from two sources: 1) the relay (on the light blue wire "A") which gets power from the fuse when the relay is energised 2) the fuse (on the red-green wire "RV). Why would a "sensor" need two power sources? I originally thought that this was a plug for the sensor and the fan motor. "S6A" (which feeds pin B via a black wire) should be a splice (because of the "S" prefix"), but when I look at the WSM wiring section, it shows a 3 pin plug which looks identical to "6A" (which is related to daylight running lights!).
Your use of the word 'sensor' is confusing to me. When I refer to 'sensor' I am referring to the Thermo Switch. Are we saying the same thing or were you referring to the 2 power sources going to the RHS Fan plug (Primary Fan)?
Seems I didn't realise there were two plugs. I previously thought the power and sensor plug were the same. I'm currently trying to fix my previous diagram, but the WSM is not helping. What I can't figure out is why the right hand power plug has two power sources ... 5A (A) is power from the relay, S168A (RV) is battery power. Does the fan have different speeds? And why would the sensor plug need ignition key power? (The WSM shows a yellow/black wire going to the sensor plug and I traced this directly to a (+15) key power fuse behind the driver) I did find a diode in the fan control circuit, but I'm still trying to figure out the polarities. I'll post an improved wiring diagram later. Thanks
Here's my second version: Image Unavailable, Please Login Unknowns include: Connection on pin "B" of RH Radiator fan motor plug (should be earth?) Diode "D1A" orientation >15 and >20bar switch contacts (in relation to pins 1 and 3 on receiver dryer pressure switches). These control fan speed (according to the WSM) Internal wiring of RH radiator fan (in relation to speed control) Internal wiring of RH radiator fan temperature switches. Unfortunately, the diagram has been squeezed and the colours are not visible (use Italian colour codes on the wiring).
Yes. The Driver or LHS Fan is single speed while the Passenger or RHS Fan is variable speed based on load (Rad Temp)
Is the control mechanical (wax or similar) or perhaps via a thermistor? I'm trying to make sense of the wiring. The wiring diagrams tell me that the RH fan has battery power on the fan at all times (key off). Of course, there is also key-powered control via the relay, airconditioning gas pressure and dual temperature thermostatic switches (32A). (Just noticed my battery symbol is back to front... I'll post an updated diagram when I have more information)
The RHS Fan is also controlled via the cooling fan Resistor Bank (# 11 or Part # 185543). It is mounted to the right of the RHS cooling fan cowling and it often fails leaving the RHS cooling fan to run only on high speed, which often burns out the fan switch in the first place. BTW, If your fan only exhibits one speed (usually high speed) it is an indication that the Resistor Bank has failed. It defaults to high speed Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks, again. Interesting. The diagrams have failed me again. The parts diagram and photos show a harness with no less than 6 plugs on it, whereas the wiring diagrams show only two 3-pin plugs. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I am quite sure other 360 owners who did not know some of this info are enjoying this discussion, lol Where is the fan resistor depicted in your 'second version' (Post #38)?
Somewhat off-topic, too, I think As the wiring diagrams only show two 3-pin plugs (on the car side), I assume the radiator harness' two 3-pin plugs connect directly to these and the other plugs are wired into these. Since the relay solenoids are affected by plug 32A wiring, I think 32A will match up, primarily, to the temperature switch plug. 33A will match up to the other 3 power plugs (including the resistor plug): Image Unavailable, Please Login I've removed the pin numbering on the radiator side because I don't know if there is a direct matchup to the numbering/lettering on the car side. Some colours were hard to identify from photos of old and new harnesses. I have no idea what that blue plug, shown in photographs, attaches to.
Some more detailed diagrams were made available... Image Unavailable, Please Login Diode polarity and 92/97degC temperature switch pinout still unknown.
Hi All. Can anyone tell me the location of any engine related fuses for a Modena? I can’t get the car to start and I think it may be a fuse. Shop manual is no help
Fuses and relays behind passenger seat (LHD car) for the RH engine bank Image Unavailable, Please Login (EDIT: sorry, didn't highlight fuse 41 in that graphic)
Fuses and relays behind driver's seat (LHD car) for the LH engine bank Image Unavailable, Please Login
I decided that the wiring diagram I provided above wasn't complicated enough, so I did the whole HVAC system... https://www.dropbox.com/t/q9OgCSV0dEMgD0Mm This was particularly challenging. Ferrari wires listed in the WSM mysteriously change colours from one end to another with no splices. Some connectors have different pin numbers on the two halves, so you have to "guess" which pin matches the other. Some wires come to dead ends. Working on 456M and 550 HVAC wiring diagrams helps you figure out what wire actually goes where. I'm not overly familiar with the 360 HVAC system. I see there are two Hot/Cold Mixer motor-actuators and two sensors for treated air. Does this mean the passenger has individual control of the heat/cold? The diagram is basically a supplement to the pinout diagrams in the WSM. You will probably still need the WSM to help with connector location. I'll try to add to squeeze some more graphics into the diagram when I find suitable ones i.e. to help with component identification and location. As always, the link will self-destruct in 6 days...
