V-12 Engine into 308 Build, over on Grassroots

that's identical to just about any 70s-80s European car door switch. My 74 911 uses switches almost just like that.

 

Been doing this for yrs... Relays go in the door, new 12v wire pulled from panel to the door.. rewire based on relay diagram posted earlier...

Keeps the voltage drop to a min, switch in console only controls the low voltage/current side of the relay.

Windows move at acceptable if not blistering for a 308, with the relay mod.

Current draw of the window motor is crazy high due to the rube goldberg pulley system.

 

Yep would concurr the pulley system has very high levels of friction, even when correctly maintained.

 

If the speed was still not good after the relays the plan was ball bearing pulleys....but the speed is fine for now.


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Here's another relay option I was pointed to....probably better for a door install than the mechanical relays I'm using in the dash install. I don't generally like to bypass connectors or splice stuff like this in unless I have to but adhesive heatshink over the splices and I'm sure its fine for decades to come.

http://rodneydickman.com/product_info.php?products_id=229
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Quite expensive for two relays!

I too was thinking of the ball bearing pulleys. What are the pulley ID, OD and thickness. I’ll try to find a good source as I need to put mine in soon.

I had to look up Rube Goldberg... learn something new every day

 

Yes, but they are potted neatly and an easy install. I already had the door panels back on before seeing the pulley size question, sorry.

parts for the second window relays came so that all done now. I used the brand of relay I used for the ECU so its a little clear they are not stock. I ended up removing about 10 feet of power wire per window this way. 2 new 16g grounds off the relays, as I said before still fuse power from the original source so the window fuses are still the window fuses (but in an upgraded fuss panel)

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Called the shop yesterday, they promised to call me back later...so yeah, its time for me to call again today . I'm feeling this is the week it needs to come home.

Also thinking about maybe switching to non-water based coolant such as Evans coolant. I think a lot of my surface corrosion where coolant spilled was probably related to soot from the fire which should now be resolved, but it got me thinking about leaks and rust pitted cylinders and maybe now that everything is drained I should blow it all out and switch to coolant that really can't ever corrode anything ever again. I've use similar products in industrial applications but never used it in a car....this might be the time though.

 

So a few weeks ago after I called 6 or 10 times and finally got an answer I was told the loud ringer was broken in the shop was broken but they were about to call me back. Monday I called and got no answer but they called back a few minutes later, Pauly wasn't in yet but he'd call me later in the day.....I called Tuesday-no answer of call back, just called now.....and I guess I'll call every hour or so......its time this gets done.


Edit: got him this time "he never called you? he's weld but I'm writing it down and he will call you back when he's done."

Now, I know that no call back means he had nothing to tell me but thought he'd get to it later so better to wait, I've had that experience many times over the years.....it means that after what 3 months? waiting I'll be honing it myself this weekend. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Got a call tonight so its official....they can't hone it. I'll pick everything up tomorrow or Friday. About 5 or 6 thou per cylinder needs to come out....an hour or 2 each I guess so maybe done this weekend but most likely it pushed through next weekend.

 

gahhhhhh! deep breaths

 

Blind bore honing is a real PITA to get done, even here in socal. There's I think 3 places left in the entire basin that can do it. Guy closest to me passed away a couple yrs ago.
Feel your pain....

 

They will have it at the door for me at 8am tomorrow to grab on my way to the office.....we try to keep covid opportunities to a minimum.

I think I can hand hone it with the cylinders in place.....I'll know friday for sure. It not I'll make something to support the thin spigot end and hone them on the bench. One way or the other they are getting honed and the engine is going back together.

 

Baby came home today.....and it looks like the honing shouldn't be a problem, it reaches the bottom easily. I'll get to it tomorrow

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Sweet!
I'm assuming you've got tq plates for both banks. Also if possible a 'girdle' or plate to brace the bottom. When the blocks mount to the gearcase it provides rigidity that's missing when it's sitting free... it's more apparent on the line bore, but something to consider.

 

Nope, none of that will be happening. I'm sure its better....but not sure its enough better to make me want to to effort and expense doing it. The factory finishes the cylinders on the bench and no doubt believes that they stay round enough when installed. Mine are a bit thinner than stock and after all the block welding and a few heat cycles now I can't be sure its as straight as factory so hone in the block and call it good is the plan. If I'm throwing away a 1/2% of possible hp so be it.

I will be line lapping the block after the honing is done and heads will be on for that....the studs pull from the main bearing webs so for sure the bearings get distorted. Heads on and torqued for that as the service manual says.

 

Well, its every bit as much a such job as I suspected. About 45 minutes to get the piston in and 70 minutes with the course stones to get to .0025 clearance on the 1st hole. My plan is take the last thou with the fine stones so on to hole 2.
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As I finished up the 4th I realized they were not turning out as good as I thought. I was sliding the piston in up side down so I could hold it easily and all seemed fine, but flip it right side up and it became clear the bottom of the cylinder was coming out undersize, at last inch maybe. So I stopped, pulled the liners and cleaned everything up (I use a little sealant on the o-ring because I don't trust the seat in the block that is made of weld).
Tomorrow I'll set the mill up to hone these. Out of the block thy heat up fast, the last time I remember I kept rotating thought them lie 10-15 minutes at a time...so will probably be the plan again.

 

Blanking on his name... Member in SD... Doug, dusty...? Crap I can't recall... He made a fixture that the liner popped into, then he honed them. Looked like a large liner with cap, aka tq plate. Like duplicating a section of the block.
He might still post on here...ugh, really hate that I've forgotten his name.

 

I found the fixture and setup the mill this morning

The 4 tapered cylinders straighten right out. I moved the last on the rear bank and was ecstatic that after like 5 minutes each the pistons dropped in and I started the other 6 while these cooled.....then I kind of realized that the machine shop had played with the other 2 and not in the block the cylinder flexes easily....so yeah, it was 30-40 minutes each before there was any need to even try measuring. Right now 7 are an honest 2.5 clearance and the other 5 are maybe 1-2.

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On the mill held by the flange the spigot heats up fast, and also flexes a lot, which makes it expand and not hone nearly as quickly as the flange end so there is a chase the taper game where I kind of guess how much extra time to spend on the spigot then after a couple minutes the WD-40 is smoking and its time to move to the next. I'm getting there but this is why I really wanted to pay the shop to do it....and my should aches now after running the quill all day.I'm guessing 6-8 more hours to get them all finish at 3.5.

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Wow, this just gets more interesting, I know nothing about whats going on , other than I think the cylinders are being matched to the pistons ? Anyhow, Im excited to see the motor finished and back in the car, and the next test drive. I absolutely love the insane craftsmanship that I have seen throughout this project , as well as stuff ive seen over the years in person, and in magazines. God hands his talent out to a very few, here is one example. I was lucky enough to meet a CNC machinest that had his shop next to my buddies, he was retired and still had about 4 mills in his shop, and was doing projects on the side for some of his contacts. Well, as you would have it, he made a beautiful aluminum plaque to go on my 328 s airbox with 328 GTS inscribed, and 4 countersunk holes to fasten to the box . He also made four press fit exhaust tip extenders for my car, again, all done on the CNC machine, to see him programing the mill to do the cutting and to see the mill in action was something that I have never seen before. He also made a huge aluminum shifter ball and a license plate frame for me. Unfortunately Marty passed away from complications from a stem cell infusion after many years of being cured of leukemia . Im grateful to have met him, and to have spent time with him at his shop while he designed and built stuff with the CNC machines.

Thank you

 

You got it, making the pistons fit properly....and its taking a lot longer than I'd planned. i was in the shop at least a couple hours every night this week and I'll probably be still honing all weekend, not moving on the fitting the main bearing as I thought. Looks like bearing will be next weekend. At some point I will be recalled to house work so I need to pick up the pace on the engine if I want it running this spring.

In other news the graphics place making the tach face stickers had to re-do the conversion from CAD to pdf for me....I was so proud of that effort but they were not so much happy with it...and I honestly didn't understand why....but they fixed it, sent a pdf for approval and I assume are now making them.

 

Still honing......when I said they were all at 2-2.5 and nearly done that was a lie. They are so thin that a snug feeler gauge is probably a couple thou, a tiny gauge maybe 3 or 4. Now they are all an honest 2.5-3+. This was clearly not the right way to do this job but I'm actually nearly done now.

......I should have just put a Harbor Freight engine or 6 in the car, saved myself a ton of time, weight, and money and been done with it....live and learn Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I hear you can do amazing things with a Honda lump !

Keep going, we're all in on this! (You aren't the only one who's got a lot of years invested in it! )

 

yeah, its funny. 20 years ago when I got this car it was the Toyoda 6 that was magic, you'd see some pretty insane hp numbers. Over time is become the honda 4, you still see others no where near as often and they are usually much more sane numbers. Then as now you don't really see any of that with the the big stuff like an LS, I guess because it will just explode all the parts you bolt to it but the tiny engine big turbo guys can use other driveline parts designed/intended for the bigger stuff but there is no place for LS guys to go but full custom race stuff at full custom prices which kind of pushes everyone to the same solutions aimed at specific race classes.

When I was racing my H-D bike the trans was the bane of my existence. The engine was putting out more than competitive hp pretty reliably but I was breaking stuff in the trans every weekend, it was a game of whack-a-mole where I beef up 1 part and the next goes...they worked fine with much more HP at the drag strip, but not for 10 hot laps 6 or 8 times during a weekend, just over heated and worn right out. I finally just replaced the whole thing with built for road racing setup over the winter but never got back to the track in the spring with life interfering so no idea if I'd actually fixed it. Road racing is a very tough on the equipment game.

I'm pretty sure once I get the 12 running running right my biggest risk is the drop gears....they scare me a bit if I'm being honest.

 

OK, what else gets melted if they fail & what could you do about those?