Shorten exhaust cam. | FerrariChat

Shorten exhaust cam.

Discussion in '308/328' started by TommyA, Jan 25, 2021.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tommy A
    I need to shorten the exhaust cam on 2V to keep the end covers (converting to EFI) as short as possible. How far can I safely cut the exhaust cam? I realize they are hollow so better be safe before I do. Thanks.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula 3

    Feb 21, 2014
    1,109
    Mansfield, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron
    Does your EFI have a cam position sensor? This is where mine is installed.
     
  3. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tommy A
  4. ProvaMo

    ProvaMo Formula Junior

    Jun 29, 2004
    308
    Mid West
    Full Name:
    Paul John
    I was going to cut mine, but saw that hex plug at the end of the cam, inside the fine threads for the aux air pulley. So, I stopped and fabricated a simple Delrin plastic thread cap. Would removing the hex plug at the end and measuring the hollow depth help determine how you cut?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    15,516
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    Cam is hollow all the way thru... So if you cut it you'll have to tap it for the plug.. metric taper threading... Yes that exists, oddly.

    Might actually be easier to fabricate a cover that mounts to the head and cover or uses an 'o' ring grove and is pinch fit into the space. Just a thought.
     
  6. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    12,902
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    Right! and that center hole is not just for lightness, it is part of the oil system. Oil feeds into the cam and then holes in the cam feed all the cam bearings....please don't cut it :(

    but it you must ( I do understand wanting the engine to look its best) you might be able to beat in and Loctite in a plug....the cam is pretty hard, not sure you can tap it....a tack welded plug probably would work.
     
  7. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    15,516
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    Tolerances are really tight on the cam journals, risky welding the cam, very high probability of warping. Caution that course.
    Good point on the hardness...
    Safe option... Don't cut in my opinion.
     
  8. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tommy A
    Convincing enough not to cut it.... I guess can live with a longer cap and not worry about looks as much. Since on the subject, I have installed NFF cam gear pulleys. Is there anything that I can do with them (adjust) to get maximum performance out of the 2V engine?
    Al emissions have been removed. Plenum has been enlarged to 69.5mm with a 68mm Drive By Wire TB. Fitted with coil on plugs and an MAF housed in a 4" intake pipe. Knock sensors have been added. Al comes together on the Motec M800
    Thanks in for all the help.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. sltillim

    sltillim Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 22, 2009
    1,504
    San Diego
    What do most people do when they put those alternator blank covers on when goin to a direct fire ignition?

    they aren’t buying new camshafts, are they?
     
  10. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    12,902
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    That is an air pump drive isn't it? Most cars don't have that to start with I don't think, different cam part number.
     
  11. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tommy A
    Most of the people doing this keep the same cams.
     
  12. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tommy A
    Mark,
    That is correct. The air pump is attached on that cam.
     
  13. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,520
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    If you still have the original American emissions cams I strongly recommend switching to the earlier cams or modern profiles from Web cams in the US or Cat cams in Belgium. Looking at the work you have already done, it seems a shame to put back the emissions cams.
     
    waymar likes this.
  14. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tommy A
    Derek,
    I thought about it but after reading so many posts they all seem to agree that the P6 cam is more for top end performance sacrificing everyday street use. I will look however at the 2 vendors that you have mentioned.
     
  15. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    12,902
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    That's true about P6 cams with carbs as the carbs just won't work very well, but with EFI most of the issues go away...although if you are planning to use an MAF if still may be a concern as they don't like flow reversion any more and cars do. But I think Derek's point was that us 76-77 or 76-79 euro carb cams are not P6 but still much better than any CIS cam or the 78-79 US carb cams, I think I have the years right but for sure all the CIS cams are just terrible and what drove the switch to 4V that works better with very short duration cams. A better OEM cam upgrade should bring you 20hp or so, aftermarket grind 20-40 probably.
     
  16. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tommy A
    Mark,
    Are you saying that I could salvage my cams if I send them out for grind?
     
  17. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tommy A
    ok this is what web cams is offering for my cams. Are these numbers a good target?

    lift .360/.332
    duration 270/265
    duration @ 0.050 246/239
     
    Saabguy and smg2 like this.
  18. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    12,902
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    Those are most excellent numbers
     
  19. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 28, 2005
    4,120
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Full Name:
    Gordon
    Speaking of salvage - what about sourcing a Euro-spec exhaust cam to replace that US cam? No air pump extension on the end of the cam - it comes shortened from the factory. Then you can use the factory flat cam end plate cover.
     
  20. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tommy A
    Gordon, It appears that a bigger concern is the performance of my engine right now with all the mods that I have done than the stupid air pump extension on the exhaust cam. It will be GREAT if I can source the cams that Mark is talking about and both of the problems will be solved.
     
  21. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tommy A
    I just saw 4 new cams on ebay and emailed them to get specs on these cams as there is nothing listed about them other than they are high performance from a GT4.
     
  22. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    12,902
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    the specs you posted are very good, but they are not OEM specs I don't think? Are those a Web regrind option? A regrind means they use your cores so the extension stays.

    Cat cam is making new blanks I think so you might want to see what they offer too as that might get you a nice grind without the silly extension (which to be honest, as much as you hate it now, you'll really never notice once the engine is done and installed)
     
  23. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,520
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    Tommy, there are loads of the crap cams out there, I have two sets if anyone needs some cores to regrind. CAT have several grinds and a complete new set (no core or exchange is about $1500.) I went with the 402 fast road set. I wouldn't use the bigger ones with standard lifters but the 402 set fit ok. I have titanium valve spring retainers for £150 but contact Hans Sorenson at Spirit of Italy in Norway as he says he sells them for £50 (I only found out after I bought the minimum 10 sets :-( ) Here is the Cat cams link:
    http://www.catcams.com/products/camshafts/datasheet.aspx?ENGINE_id=137&CAMSETUP_id=413&Language=english
     
  24. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    12,902
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    Those are nice, not far off what I have in the V12. and by fast street you mean:
    "FOR COMPETITION APPLICATIONS ONLY." :)

    It seem a lot of lift for stock buckets? do they say its ok? the conventional thinking is stay under about 9.3mm lift or risk flipping out the shims.
     
  25. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tommy A
    Yes Web regrind option. I guess you're right about the extension. The engine is just sitting in front of my face and I keep looking at what I have to do. I think I'll get over it....
     

Share This Page