Nice ride, so this may cause considerable offence... Stanceworks 308 GTBi (Honda K24 Swap)

Because 308s and the "cheap" Ferrari and most of us that own them are basically cheap people, not usually by choice but because many of us are poor by Ferrari owner standards. That is why the first thing you here when you start messing with one is some version of "you're pissing money away!".

You're doing a...$70k+ build? that will be worth a fraction of that when complete, which is very rare in 308 land. That's all it is really.....its taken me personally 20 years to piss away that kind of money on my 308 build mush to the dismay of my wife who refers to the car project as "a money disposal".

 

I wish this was going to cost me $70k. That's a massive understatement.
With that said, I still think this group will be surprised at what my car will be worth. Someone will want it, if I decide to sell it. I'm not concerned about it in the least.

 

The market for Ferraris in general is quite limited and modified Ferraris is small subset of that. The more modified the smaller the subset....it's there for sure...at least I pray it is, but often its the salvage yards that are the only market

Anyway, I assume that's what triggered the question about what you do for a living that 70 (or 150k) doesn't matter to you.

 

Totally understood. I just hope everyone here keeps in mind that my target audience isn't the same target audience as almost everyone else here. It's completely different, and isn't really related to Ferrari or 308 values, because I'm not selling a normal Ferrari 308, and I'm not selling to the people that would buy normal Ferraris or 308s.

 

Plus you're building it for you so it doesn't really matter what anyone else things of it or any part of it.

I don't think I saw seats or any interior stuff on your weight list so a bit more to come out there I guess. For what little its worth I'll be sad if you're not close to the 2500 number in the end.

 

Taking the front end apart revealed just how wildly stout the nose of the car is. I'll be removing a good bit of material out of the front of the car, in terms of metal/structure. The interior should shave a bit of weight too. I'll hope for 2500, but want to stay grounded.

 

Have you got to thinking swaybars yet? That is on my "if the engine ever actually runs" list.

I kind of have myself talked into piecing together something from here or similar
http://1speedway.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=76

like a 1"x.095 wall in the rear:
http://1speedway.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=76&product_id=90

then there is a good selection of gun-drilled 1 1/4" for the front but only in 1 length of 37 1/2"...but I remember thinking it would work
http://1speedway.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=76&product_id=89

so very light compared to solid bars.....I just need a running engine more at the moment.

 

Compared with the hot rod 911 market which is so hot right now, I don't understand why a super hot 308 wouldn't be welcomed at least half as warmly as an incredible twin plug EFI ITB 911 is these days. Everyone since the dawn of the 308 has always said '308 is great but it needs 300bhp and then t would be perfect', then when someone makes one, even when it appears totally stock otherwise it's almost frowned upon. It's truly bizarre.

That all said, I remain a huge fan of hot 308s, but still object re the Honda engine. I am hoping once it's done I am sold on it though, perhaps even shaping more opinion on these builds.

Keep cracking away Mike

 

Maintenance. There are very few places that can work on even a stock Ferrari and once its modified the number drops by 90% I'd guess. When its you're car and you maintain it that's a non-issue but that's not the case with most Ferrari owners...so they wish for more HP then are scared to jump in once they've thought about what that means....it starts to look like a money pit. At least that is how it appears to me based on comments/posts over the years.

If its well done though you do see them move at decent prices....the draw of more hp and a more exotic/exclusive car is just to hard for at least a portion to the market to ignore. I'm sure your car would be in this group....but its for sure a more limited group of buyers. I've seen quite a few end up sold through the shop who built them as that gives a bit more security blanket feeling that you're not on your own with god knows what.

The Porsche crowd is a bit different, many more more home mechanics and many more cars to source spares from and the a big enough market so NLA basically doesn't happens. Even there though the market for non-Porsche powered creations is basically nonexistent...you see then pop up but its very rare they command much interest. The engine is just such a big part of what makes an exotic exotic and the more fiscal sense a swap makes the less desirable/exotic it becomes, at least in the normal exotic market crowd but perhaps as Mike said it opens new doors, I have no idea about that other than I haven't seen it.

 

The 308 /328 is quickly becoming a Ferrari classic and growing on the collecting lists of Ferrari Collectors. there are few very original and well maintained 308's out there. the average values have almost doubled over the past 20 years. So while the 308 lends its self to the home mechanic - I think the future of values will steadily increase... they will be $100K cars in the next 10- years. that said, the cost to really care for them properly has never been cheap. so when you modify one so extensively i think that is why the huge reaction... everyone that is in the 308 world spends so much time trying to care and maintain the .. and make them more usable without destroying originality ... doing the build here is very different. so while I personally would not want t use a honda engine in a Ferrar... or vice versa... nevertheless this is a very interesting build. a 1000hp 308 ? has a lot of allure. as for the comparison to Porsche... there just is none Porsche made more cars in a month that Ferrari did in a year when the 308 was new. there is just so many cars in the Porsche world. modifying them is its own sub Porsche world. owning both marques ... i find there is almost no comparison to Porsche owners and Ferrari owners ( unless they own both... and then its usually they love racing ) ... many Porsche owners are eager to modify their car from new... and there is a huge industry that supports them... not really so in the Ferrari world. that said I'd love a 356 Coupe with about 350 HP... it would just be cool...

 

I just watched your latest vid... I need a front bumper... dang it! Very interesting project man.

 

I really appreciate this kind of support, JC. I won't lie and say I didn't type up an initially very critical response to the guy at first, but eventually landed on feeling like the question was stupid anyway.
I'm glad some opinions are turning. Mine are too. It's understandable everyone was feeling a bit aggressive from the start.

Thank you for the support. I'm still hesitant about how you guys may feel about the end result from a looks perspective, but I feel like as we go along, at least the direction and ethos behind the build will continue to garner some understanding and appreciation.

Thanks! Sorry about that. If the sale for the front bumper falls through for any reason, I'll let you know.

 

I think maybe you're worried too much about that. We've already seen the basic 308 transformed into the F40 and the 288 Evoluzione 35 years ago and unless you are going to reinvent the wheel I'm pretty sure you're going to end up somewhere close to those lines.

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Hey as long as you're happy. Don't get me started on all the over-restored Ferrari's gracing the lawns of Pebble Beach and the like, it's infuriating. Not to go too off-topic. Then there's the other end of that spectrum, eccentric individuals with fabulous cars that are rotting, one of the most famous being the Karl Kleve IIRC. It was a late 50s racing Ferrari (can't recall which) in Ohio left to sit out and rot in some tow yard. It was stolen from the yard in the 80s and shipped to Europe and restored. The lawsuits surrounding that car and who owns it are hilarious. Never would have happened had that car just been taken car of to some degree. Then there's the countless fabulous cars sitting in Dubai under a yard of dirt...... I digress

 

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Exactly..... and I don't think its the prospect of lighting or body mods any of that so much as the engine that is disturbing and blasphemous

...at least on this particular site. Over on GRM they mostly approve and probably the same on honda forums.

 

This K24 into a Lotus Exige might be useful to compare notes.

 

Hmmm how hard would it be to fit one of these Honda's into a Lotus Europa? I've had a hankering for a gt47 replica... but was always thinking of a V-8... but a small honda may be better lighter and easier to install. there is a Europa on BAT now ... dreams ..... but its fun

 

I have a ‘73 Europa and it is like a motorized roller skate! Fun car.


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Just wanted to ‘weigh’ in on the 308s-are-ludicrously-heavy discussion. Is this really true? I was watching some delta integrale videos this morning: 1300kg/215bhp being considered light and powerful ... was just checking Wikipedia estimating 308 gt4 at 1150kg. Seems pretty light to me!

 

Yea, this is where we have to give Mr Burroughs some question because although he doesn't use the term "ludicrous" he does indeed often say "ridiculous" and "insane" when describing the 308 structure. He never , however acknowledges the fact that it was a vehicle that had complied with all of the US DOT crash and emissions regulations at the time and hey, how much of a POS was the 1980 Corvette? What kind of engine was Honda putting in the Accord in 1980?

I'll respect his build if he'll show some respect for what he's building it off of but so far he just keeps going on about how stupid Ferrari is and how much smarter he is and honestly, it just turns me off.





























us DOT compliant

 

Yep the 308 design was routed in 60's technology, basically a cost optimised 246 frame, it was not until the 348 that Ferrari moved to unibody construction, this is to a degree why these are great Ferrari's for the DIY mechanic as they are simple cars other than access to some parts being a knuckle grazing experience.