456 hard gearshift - recommendations for gear oil?

I did remove the gate without driving the car and the gears seemed to be aligned ok, but I'll try unscrewing the gate and driving around without it to see whether there is any change; that's a good idea. The third gear grinding seems to point to a synchro problem, pure and simple, but the issue with first and reverse being initially ok, but so difficult to get after a run, is something I can't understand at the moment. Could it be something to do with the clutch when that is warm? I don't quite see what, but I'm grasping at straws.

 

It doesn't feel particularly sloppy, but this is the only manual 456 I have driven, so I can't compare it, and clearly it's something I should check, since there have been several mentions of worn bushings now. How should I best go about that? If I go under the car while having someone operate the gear lever can I easily identify worn bushings?

 

Thanks for this. When I unscrewed the gate the shift continued to feel quite tight, so I don't think there is much slop. There's certainly a lot less than in many cars I've driven. Nonetheless I will get underneath to see whether I can see any play in the bushings, just to eliminate that possible problem.

 

This is a good idea, thanks. Several times now when I have got to my destination I'ver found it nigh on impossible to engage either first or reverse. What I'lll do, if that happens again, is to turn the engine off and try to engage them. If it's a clutch issue then I should notice the difference.

 

Yes, I need to look at the clutch as possibly being involved in the problem. So I should bleed it - I'll do that. Anything else I can check or adjust with the clutch?

 

OK, thanks. Well, I'll bleed it and see whether that fixes the problem. Now to get some clutch fluid first.

 

Thanks. I'll need to buy some new fluid. It's always months, years, between one time when I need brake fluid and the next, and it's not worth trying to economize by using a half empty can of the stuff that might have got water in it.

 

I need to play with it a bit; my recollection is that it feels pretty normal, neither engaging very soon nor very late, but I hadn't really studied it in detail.

 

Yes, I am starting to think that all the gear change symptoms I'm experiencing could be from a slight clutch drag when the car is warmed up. I will certainly be bleeding the clutch to test the theory.

 

I finally got around to bleeding the clutch today. And now I'm confused.

I used a pressure bleeder (mine was from Gunson 'easy bleed'). The first thing I encountered when bleeding is that I could not get a steady stream of liquid from the bleed nipple, no matter how far I opened it, but only rapid dripping. Perhaps I need to replace the bleed nipple? This is with the system pressurized to the maximum recommended by the pressure bleeder - 20 psi / 1.5 bar.

With only drips coming out, it was not possible to see whether there was air in the liquid.

Next, once I finished bleeding, after collecting about 100 ml in the container, I found the brake/clutch fluid container as I show in the two photos below. It has internal divisions, and is full except for the corner nearest, from where a hose comes off the side to the clutch cylinder, which is pretty empty. What is going on here? Is it simply that I need to wait some hours for the levels in the container to equilibrate? Or does the empty corner indicate that I have a problem with the clutch cylinder?

Once more piece of data: I jacked up the rear wheels and felt quite a lot of resistance to turning them even in neutral. Is that normal on this car or is it abnormal clutch drag?

All thoughts will be gratefully received!


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I'm going to try bleeding from the other cap right now. I thought that the two halves must communicate internally. Are they two entirely separate containers then?

 

That went much better. Thanks for that piece of vital information on the caps, Bart! So yes, one needs to connect the pressure bleeder on the left cap, viewed from the front of the car. This time I got a nice stream of liquid from the bleed nipple. I didn't notice any air bubbles coming out, but perhaps they came out in the previous bleed. I think I had probably better change the clutch and brake liquid completely, since I don't know how long the present liquid has been in the system, but first tomorrow I'll take the car 60 km to work and back and will see whether the bleeding has made a difference to the gear change. I'll report back.

 

Well, I took the car to work today, and it seemed a little better, but not a complete cure. I am thinking that I have an amount of clutch drag all the time, which is at the root of the whole problem. But: I now have a more urgent problem with my 456; I think I should start a new thread on that.