Sorry to hear that @Granada456 ... I know how frustrating that can be! I randomly get a brief "grindy" sound going from second to third... it does not happen on downshift from fourth to third... just the upshift and not always... I am still going to try some different gearbox fluid...maybe that will help.
I did remove the gate without driving the car and the gears seemed to be aligned ok, but I'll try unscrewing the gate and driving around without it to see whether there is any change; that's a good idea. The third gear grinding seems to point to a synchro problem, pure and simple, but the issue with first and reverse being initially ok, but so difficult to get after a run, is something I can't understand at the moment. Could it be something to do with the clutch when that is warm? I don't quite see what, but I'm grasping at straws.
The 360 and F430 have all kinds of trouble with gearshift lever bushings and there are lots of them in the 456 selector mechanism. Any slop in the lever?
It doesn't feel particularly sloppy, but this is the only manual 456 I have driven, so I can't compare it, and clearly it's something I should check, since there have been several mentions of worn bushings now. How should I best go about that? If I go under the car while having someone operate the gear lever can I easily identify worn bushings?
Julian, this is merely a data point but my gear shift is quite tight with no discernable slop. My Cayman S is direct, and feels great but isn't as tight as the 456M. There really shouldn't be any feel of lateral play. Just my experience with my car and perhaps difficult to map over to your circumstances.
If the clutch doesn't fully disengage, and primary shaft keeps spinning, you may get the phenomena you describe. With the car stopped, can you feel any difference in shifting with the engine running or off? And test with engine cold and warm.
And try bleeding the clutch! (done from below the bellhousing location) Air expands when warm (as does liquid...) maybe the pressure of pushing the pedal once is not enough to fully free the clutch? Maybe first try to pump the clutch pedal a few times, see if this makes a tiny difference.
Thanks for this. When I unscrewed the gate the shift continued to feel quite tight, so I don't think there is much slop. There's certainly a lot less than in many cars I've driven. Nonetheless I will get underneath to see whether I can see any play in the bushings, just to eliminate that possible problem.
This is a good idea, thanks. Several times now when I have got to my destination I'ver found it nigh on impossible to engage either first or reverse. What I'lll do, if that happens again, is to turn the engine off and try to engage them. If it's a clutch issue then I should notice the difference.
Yes, I need to look at the clutch as possibly being involved in the problem. So I should bleed it - I'll do that. Anything else I can check or adjust with the clutch?
No, as far as know you can't adjust anything on this hydraulic clutch. The adjustment possibilities in the clutch pedal are only there to set back to factory settings when the pedalbox has been taken apart.
OK, thanks. Well, I'll bleed it and see whether that fixes the problem. Now to get some clutch fluid first.
Where is your clutch engagement point? Mine is pretty far out on the stroke. Not a complete picture of the. Echo it’s inside but makes it feels As tho it has full disengagement.
Interesting... it does seem a bit like my "grindy" noise comes on quick upshifts from 2nd to 3rd..... I wonder if my clutch needs bleeding..I had not thought of that, maybe I will do that this weekend!
Thanks. I'll need to buy some new fluid. It's always months, years, between one time when I need brake fluid and the next, and it's not worth trying to economize by using a half empty can of the stuff that might have got water in it.
I need to play with it a bit; my recollection is that it feels pretty normal, neither engaging very soon nor very late, but I hadn't really studied it in detail.
Yes, I am starting to think that all the gear change symptoms I'm experiencing could be from a slight clutch drag when the car is warmed up. I will certainly be bleeding the clutch to test the theory.
I finally got around to bleeding the clutch today. And now I'm confused. I used a pressure bleeder (mine was from Gunson 'easy bleed'). The first thing I encountered when bleeding is that I could not get a steady stream of liquid from the bleed nipple, no matter how far I opened it, but only rapid dripping. Perhaps I need to replace the bleed nipple? This is with the system pressurized to the maximum recommended by the pressure bleeder - 20 psi / 1.5 bar. With only drips coming out, it was not possible to see whether there was air in the liquid. Next, once I finished bleeding, after collecting about 100 ml in the container, I found the brake/clutch fluid container as I show in the two photos below. It has internal divisions, and is full except for the corner nearest, from where a hose comes off the side to the clutch cylinder, which is pretty empty. What is going on here? Is it simply that I need to wait some hours for the levels in the container to equilibrate? Or does the empty corner indicate that I have a problem with the clutch cylinder? Once more piece of data: I jacked up the rear wheels and felt quite a lot of resistance to turning them even in neutral. Is that normal on this car or is it abnormal clutch drag? All thoughts will be gratefully received! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I'm going to try bleeding from the other cap right now. I thought that the two halves must communicate internally. Are they two entirely separate containers then?
The opening from the clutch compartment to the other barrel is very small, so oil comes in slowly if you fill up the inboard barrel to the top.
That went much better. Thanks for that piece of vital information on the caps, Bart! So yes, one needs to connect the pressure bleeder on the left cap, viewed from the front of the car. This time I got a nice stream of liquid from the bleed nipple. I didn't notice any air bubbles coming out, but perhaps they came out in the previous bleed. I think I had probably better change the clutch and brake liquid completely, since I don't know how long the present liquid has been in the system, but first tomorrow I'll take the car 60 km to work and back and will see whether the bleeding has made a difference to the gear change. I'll report back.
Great information @Granada456 looking forward to hearing if this helps.. I took Sofia out for lunch yesterday and she was a bit "grindy" in 2-3 shifts... I am hoping a clutch bleed might help her!
Well, I took the car to work today, and it seemed a little better, but not a complete cure. I am thinking that I have an amount of clutch drag all the time, which is at the root of the whole problem. But: I now have a more urgent problem with my 456; I think I should start a new thread on that.