812 VS Rumors

Agree. It is expensive already for what is worth as a car even for normal model.
The only strategy is buy first sell first but even for that you have to buy quite a lot new for top vip status. Now I don’t see any point no more. After 812 vs gts, I am out.


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I know of one very good (not top 3) US dealer who delivered 9 or 10 Spiders. It is impossible for worldwide production to be at 500, and one US dealer get 10 allocations.

 

Apparently I have been misinformed, thank you!

 

Personally I prefer them numbered. What I don’t care about too much is exactly how many that number is. Obviously 1 of 3,000 is a bit pointless but even up to 1,000 of each variant, at least we all know how many there are and can gauge that against the price asked. Either way, I will use and keep one if an allocation comes. But, I don’t think the car should cost double a superfast to buy - it’s nowhere near double the cost to build. Perhaps if it is 1 of 500 then maybe. It won’t be though. 1 of 999 at SF +15% is good with me, 1 of 799 at SF + 30% is also ok. 1 of ‘not very many’ at SF + 30% and it becomes much harder to work out how much I will have to pay to use the VS over the long term, which I plan to do. Not knowing the number doesn’t stop me buying but knowing the number, whatever it might be, helps to feel much better about it.

With all that said, the best thing of all is that the car is brilliant. If it is, it’s pretty easy to forgive whatever route they decide to take. Unless I can’t get one!

 

Yes, I can agree with almost anything as long as car is brilliant and I get an allocation!

 

The Pista fiasco was brought on by Ferrari and I am a pissed off loyal customer who has done all the right moves. I own a Pista also deserved a spyder. Paid my dues, was ripped off by a dealership who conveniently put in other owners as them being the first car buyers and me the second or third. Took 2 years to sort through the mess. Then looking back because someone is semi famous they get a La Ferrari but it's like their 4 the car. I am to the high single digits and low end models Cal t FF gt4lusso and more to build up to a pista which was then basically match by a f8 tributo. NA Ferrari owed me a chance at some vs cars but now their game is runny out. Might be nice of they made up for their past former sins.

 

Whether it’s fair (offensive) or not, there is some truth in each of these stereotypes. I belong to these and several other ethnic, cultural, and occupational groups and the associated respective stereotypes are also true. I pray that the we can all learn to lighten up and regain the ability to laugh at our own idiosyncrasies. Peace.

 

Welcome to the club - the exact same story for me!

 

Think 800+.

Marcel Massini

 

which is interesting as it means that the pista spider might be a rarer car than the upcoming 812 vs...

 

I agree and at some point you to start to pass on some of the newer models and maybe look at other makes. Some want that VS so bad they will play the game and lose more on the way there than the VS will be worth. Its fun for some to go down this path and for others it becomes tiresome. Personally I wont play the game, if there is a car I want I will try and buy it but I wont buy the 7 cars ahead to get my allocation.

 

The funny part is that they are also interchangeable.

Great post, Bundy.

 

Would love to hear you idea of Pista Coupe production ..2500-3000? Thank you Mr Massini.

 

W/possible exception of VS, my future Ferrari purchases will consist entirely of back catalog. Seems I'm not alone.

 

Not so many more therefore than the tdf. And yet the pista spider isn’t really selling at a great premium from list.

 

I recently sold my pista spider and got back a little bit over list. I was selling as I was leaving an RHD country for an LHD country. The current prices look more like 1500 than 800. Could be because they all got delivered in a short space of time, and the market is overloaded.

Also worth noticing that the 16M which was a 500 car run doesn't trade much over list either. I am looking at two in Germany now and probably only 20% over list. 458 aperta is 75%+ in comparison for same 500 production.

Makes the guessing game on where the 812VS sits a little more tricky. I think tdf/458 Aperta arrived during the 2015 market frenzy and that probably helped to pushed them up. Less obvious now.

 

Marcel,

If Pista Spider is 800+, does that mean Coupe number is 5,000+? I remember elsewhere your post on approximately 6,000 to 6,500 units in total, between coupe and spider, as confirmed by data from a particular supplier of Pista parts.

I am hoping the actual number is much lower, but I do remember seeing an endless stream of Pista coupes on the V-8 production line during a factory visit.

 

As a 16M owner I am somewhat baffled as to how this car stays so far off the radar for Ferrari tifosi. It is beautiful, raw, loud, exhilarating to drive, modern reliability, dripping in CF, and numbered at 499.

 

The premium over MSRP may be a thing of the distant past (TdF). Too many cars being produced to justify it. The Pista is real time proof of this. Ferrari did everything in their power to drum up "premium" for the car, but the market doesn't care and the market can't be manipulated.

If Covid makes them seriously cut production of all models, then special cars may have premium value again.

 

And the not so funny part is if we dont have these cultural "stereotypes" and differences we end up as a mono-culture - all driving Model 3 Tesla's in one colour.

 

Is it so far off the radar? I remember seeing a highly spec'd 3k mile yellow car, about 10 years ago (immediately post financial crisis), for £155k at a Ferrari dealer. Today, a 10k mile RC car is for sale at £310k - well above list from memory - from a non-Ferrari dealer. If they draw anything close to that price, that means the 16M would have been an excellent place to have had your money, and your backside, for the last 10 years.

The Aperta drives so well, it has a hard top, is better looking, more reliable/robust and will command a much higher price than the 16M long term. Perhaps meaning the 16M looks to be fully valued, in the UK at least.

 

That seems to be the plan. Not on my watch.

 

What you say makes sense, however in the US there are only 11 listed for sale on DuPont Registry with most asking ~$280K, and some ~$325K. Basically below original MSRP despite being numbered and insanely raw compared to the more modern Ferrari’s.
I agree the 458 SA will always be a premium to the 16M, I just am surprised by the magnitude of that premium currently.
I have never driven a CS but I’d be surprised if I found it to be more fun, more visceral, than the 16M. In nice climates with the top stowed and two CF roll bars sticking up the car is a sensation to drive.

 

In these talks of "resale over MSRP" the original price should not be overlooked.
The Speciale was reasonably priced when compared to the Italia or the following 488, whereas the Pista was priced to grab as much money as possible for each newcar sold; that's also a reason for struggling to keep its price, since the price was already adjusted to match the demand with the offer. So people who did not get one did not want one at the price as new, and are only ready to pay less for a second-hand car (there is some simplification in this statement, but I think that's the idea).
In its world the F12 TdF was also reasonably priced compared to the F12, but one may expect the 812 VS trying to be more priced in the spirit of the Pista.

 

Which is why if it’s not numbered and carries a significant premium over the 812SF let alone expensive option list it requires caution