Maserati Khamsin

There are two certificates for the Khamsin, when I click on "All type certificates for: MASERATI AM 120-KHAMSIN" on the screen of the second certifcate (with chassis #390) I see the numbers you mention (2 active, 4 inactive).
But when I do the same with the first certificate the numbers are 7 active and 27 inactive. So if you add these that would make a total of 9 active and 31 inactive Khamsins. What this means is not exactly clear to me, I don't know what the definition is of active/inactive.(and I'm surprised by the number 31).

 

Hi
the Typenschein is basically a document issued for the first car of a series, normally applied for by the importer, thereafter all cars of the same type should
corrispond to this certificate to be allowed on the street. So it is strange to find more than one car of a type, unless something important has changed during
the life cycle of a model, then a new Typenschein has to be issued. Not sure if this is totally and legally correct, but close.
If no certificate exists for a specific type of car, that makes it very costly to make it road legal, because all the necessary tests have to be done for this single car.

 

I assume that inactive means the number of cars that were registered in the past using this certificate, but that are not currently registered, i.e. without plates.

 

Hello Italiancars, Roger, Marc, AMLC ......

could you please tell me how you got this information ?

"At the approximate time of the change there were still 10 sets of old style seats left over in Black, 6 in Red etc. once they were used on to the new style in those colors."

I ask, because i own AM120-250 and i bought it in 2014 in Milano (Italy) from the first owner.
He told me, that the car is 100% " tuto originali "
It is Rosso Rubino with black "old style" seats.
But in the Maserati Data sheet is written, that it was build with "Senape" (Mustard) Seats.
I met Fabio Collina at Auto e Moto d'Epoca in Padova and asked him, if it is possible, that the car was delivered with black seats,
when in the Data sheet is written senape. He answered, that this is not possible, he was sure that all vehicles were delivered as it is in the data sheet.
Therefore, your contribution was very interesting for me to hear.

And AMLC you wrote :

#202 already has the new type seats and three warning lights. But the car with number #250 has the old type seats, #252 and #254 I don’t know.

#204 has new type seats (3 lights)
#250 has old type seats (3 lights)
#252 has new type seats (3 lights)
#266 has new type seats (i did not know at the moment how much lights)
#320 has new type seats (i did not know at the moment how much lights)

I own these 5 Khamsin + 1 other and two very good friends of me also own 3 Khamsin (two of this 3 are in an absolutely pristine, always very well-kept and absolutely original condition and in my opinion they belong to the best Khamsin`s on this planet)

I have to apologize to you right away, especially to Marc, for not announcing beforehand that I own 252, 266 and 320 but behind these 3 vehicles there is a very nice story and I would like to publish it only when I get one last photo in my hands. However, this can take a longer time.

Best regards

Zdenek

 

Hello Mr Z!)

Yes I also would like to know where Joe got that bizarre information about a certain number of leftover seats: Joe pray tell?

So Zdenek you have been keeping secrets...you are a bad boy: no desert for you;-)

I can't wait to hear all about this, though I know which the other one is

So you have set a new world record, overtaking "Ali Khamsin'a" and his five Khamsins in his Vienna cave (which is now four since he sold one as far as I know). Congratulations!

 

Hello Marc

Yes Zdenek got me baffled as well!
And the info from Joe makes me think he has some sort of time machine to do his time travels(?)

but Marc, you may at least shed your light on #254, as this car from Klagenfurt was at Khamsin Quaranta.
for some reason I did not take any picture of its interior, have you? That would resolve the question if it has a new or old type seat/steering wheel.

Thanks, Roger

 

I guess this is another one of those things that gets misinterpreted via internet and language.

Using the information provided by Zdenek, it appears that the change from old style seats (Series 1) to new style seats (Series 2) occurred as a running change over between #200 and #250 (approximately 25 cars).

If you read my entire comment on it, I was hypothesizing that reason it took approximately 25 cars to complete the change over was probably because they had old style seats left over in different colors. Once those seats were gone in that particular color then they started installing the Series 2 seats. I was using as an example a number for each color. Which would explain why #202 has Series 2 seats and #250 has Series 1 seats, assuming that the cars were built in sequence which was not always the case.

Now If we really want to True Khamsin Historians with absolutely no life even without Covid. Look at the Khamsin registry for interior colors of cars between #200 to #250, which type seats each has, a pattern will probably emerge indicating how many seats of each color were left when the change over began. This is something that would be done in an afternoon and analyzed endlessly by the Ferrari Historians Group.

 

Hi Roger here is 254 at K40: see head on shot, old style seats. In most shots like the profile view they had big fluffy seat covers on which hid the answer so lucky to have found one without.

FYI at K40 I did not take photos (unless they were of/with my gf!) and no one took systematic detail photos of the cars; The photographers we hired took event photos. There are photos in which each can be seen if you dig enough. At K50 I will make sure each car gets photographed so there a complete file of shots for the Registry.

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Thanks for that Joe, now I understand you better, as I mentioned the other day it is good that we all approach the documenting of these cars from different angles, with different thought processes so we don't create copy past identical knowledge databases but mutlifaceted ones.

 

My assumption too. But it's also possible that there are also "inactive" cars which are in fact active, because they share a number plate with another car (in some cantons, classic vehicles can have up to 6 number plates). If there are two cars running on the same plate, the bigger car is usually the main car. So maybe for the statistics, they only count the main car as "active"?

 

Indeed. Weren't there any Khamsins sold in Switzerland prior to the first homologated one? Maybe the second homologation had to be made because the importer changed from Martinelli&Sonvico in Chiasso to Sida in Conthey. The Tipo 107 was only homologated in November 1964, but the first one was sold in April 1964. And according to the Maserati archive, 49 were sold new to Switzerland, but the Astra statistics only accounts for 42 of them. Is there a way to get the chassis numbers of all of them via ASTRA?

 

A sad sight...

The owner was unhurt but about a year ago he slid on a wet road in western Europe and went hard into a ditch.

It was a beautiful car very well maintained, even signed by Gandini.

A friend bought it to find it the right buyer to restore it. I would like to see it saved. My dream is that it get best restoration award at KHAMSIN CINQUANTA in 16 months June 16-19 2022; did I tell you my motto is whip reality into obeying the dream?;-)

99% of the damage is in front of the windshield which needs to be replaced but they are available. The car was put indoors and stored away from humidity from day one. The steering wheel was bent when he braced himself in the impact so will have to be replaced which is easy. Nothing else was removed. I know of a solid chassis that can be bought and all the bits are available. I would be very happy to help him and see it be saved: more details by PM.

A few other photos from when it was in an article, the driver is not the owner but the journalist. May these photos motivate someone

I will not state the price or the chassis number here and ask the sleuths who might identify it to abstain from doing so here for the sake of privacy.

Ok ambitious restorers please arise! PM me.

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Maybe some of the Tîpo 107's sold in Switzerland were sold to diplomats and embassies, and never registered on Swiss plates?

But I think it's also necessary to understand what happens when cars are imported, exported, or scrapped, and, as you already pointed out, how (classic) cars are counted that use the same plates.

 

Oh man that is a sad sight. But good no one was hurt.

 

What a pity
No chance that the original chassis can pe restored?

 

According to a top restorer alas no. But as I mentioned there is a replacement chassis available a few hours drive away from the car.

 

Surely with a non-original chassis you would end up upside down financially very quickly... not a concern of course if you do it for the love.

 

The replacement chassis is an original chassis in solid condition, it comes from a Khamsin which could not be saved and is being parted out. That one has given its engine and gearbox to one car that had a wrong engine, many other bits to another car being restored so it is like an organ bank.

The point with the front end crash car is not for anyone to make a profit but for someone to save the car. It is a beautiful challenge. If I had the means I would go for it because the next time I can afford to again own a K I am not reselling it, no matter what.

 

Hello Marc

I just came across another picture of that golden K in Japan (#0054?)

The bing translator says:
1977 Summer at Tsukuba Pass, Ibaraki Prefecture.
During the supercar boom era, supercars appeared on the TV "Jacker Blitz".
A commemorative photo with all the owners who appeared after the TV recording.
The switching chairman was cleaning the plug of his car 365BB was televised.

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Great find Roger! Yes assumed to be 0054.

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Hi there, any idea what the colour combo is for this car? Looks like the Verde with white interior the same as mine was originally.

 

Hi Mark, will PM you tomorrow.

 

Hello AMLC

I have been digging a bit more into type approvals and the available data on registered cars in Switzerland:

a new type approval has to be requested for each new main importer of specific models, so that makes 052111 and 052117, as mentioned before.
Private imports are marked as X for type approval, so you will not find them in the links you included, but only in the full list of Maserati Khamsin in Switzerland.

This lists shows currently 17 cars, of which
12 with type approval 052111, but only 7 currently road registered and 5 where the registration has been cancelled between 2016 and 2021
2 with type approval 052117, both currently road registered
3 with type approval X, 1 currently road registered and 2 where the registration has been cancelled between 2017 and 2020

Not included in this list are all cars once registered but since exported, scrapped, used for parts or, most importantly, laid up and not registered
for at least one day within the last 5 years. So there are more out there. In my humble opinion these amount to at least 8 cars, to make a total
of currently 25 Khamsins in Switzerland. Cross checking with the year they were first registered in Switzerland and the GIS
(geographical information system) that shows in which canton those cars are registered one can guess/deduce most VINS.

Furthermore the list shows where they were imported from if they wern't sold directly to Switzerland.

The detail shows one car imported from Italy, one from the UK and two from the US, but interestingly there is a third car with US-VIN that must never have gone to the US, but sold directly to CH.

There is a further list showing all imports of the last few years, but no Khamsin is listed, you can find a couple of Bora, Indy, Ghibli, 3500 and even a 5000 GT
and which country they came from. Quite interesting stuff...

What I have not understood is, what they mean by inactive, as those numbers are still greater than those calculated above.
Probably they include the scrapped or exported cars, as well as those running on so-called garage plates (Canton / Number followed by 'U')
I have still to figure out which VINS belong to the 27 and 4 inactive ones.

Regards, Roger

 

Great work Roger.
The US car may be
1168 sold new in Modena with a km Speedo, not miles. Then after just a year or so there it spent decades in Geneva with a family that also had a Mistral Spyder. A friend of mine from Paris, former long time owner of the Khamsin Spyder, bought it a few years ago in Geneva, registered it in Paris. He stopped for lunch with it in Macon Burgundy so we could get together and I drove it that day. The headlights had seemingly not been used in years. He keeps it in Paris but services it in Geneva. Bumpers and sidelights converted.

Some Swiss cars have been very tucked away such as 314 (ex?) Thomas Luscher, the one of elite dealer Lukas Huni (the 5000gt might have to do with him) a dark red one sold by Galantica...we should go on a scouting mission!

 

PS: Oops; Luscher's car was 316, last seen for sale near Lake Constance/Bodensee in September 2017 advertised on Autoscout 24 at 43100km and CHF 219K looking very nice.


Offered by:


PFT Car AG

Weinfelderstrasse 94a

8580 Amriswil

PFT Car AG

Here photos provided by Luscher shown in VCM, issue 50, 1987.

A perfect example of those Swiss cars that are very much under the radar.

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