Heat management | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Heat management

Discussion in '348/355' started by Targatime, Dec 6, 2020.

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  1. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
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    #51 Targatime, Dec 28, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
    Interesting, thanks for posting, and for taking temp measurements. I'm still going pigs in a blanket on mine, since the shield doesn't protect the trans mount that's right under the cat, and it doesn't really reduce the overall heating of the engine bay. Good work, hope to dig into my car in the coming weeks.
     
  2. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    Looks cool. Would like to see pic of whole bay.
     
  3. Culprit

    Culprit Formula Junior
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    Nice yes would be interesting to see what kind of results you get. What I was saying is that the side of the airboxes and also the strut towers etc. which are not directly exposed to the cats are 20° F cooler on the side with the shield. When I cover the driver side as well, I can probably reduce the 'ambient' temp of 150-170 (depending on where you measure) by 25-30° F with just a couple small shields, that's pretty significant.

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    Everything's back together so not much to see... it's an early dual fuel pump model with the stock header shields in place.

    I also picked up some of this Zircotec material which is the latest in flexible ceramic technology. I think I'll cut some of this to shield part of the muffler from radiating back into the engine bay.

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  4. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    Looks fantastic. CLEAN !!!
     
  5. Culprit

    Culprit Formula Junior
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  6. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
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    That looks great. I'll have some updates to this later today, also made a little progress on my project.

    Where did you get those large stainless straps for the muffler?
     
  7. Culprit

    Culprit Formula Junior
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    The straps are from DEI:
    https://www.designengineering.com/products/locking-ties-clamps/
    I can't get them as tight as a worm gear clamp, but they seem to work fine for larger parts.

    Interested to see what you're working on. It's hard to accurately measure, but looks like my setup reduced temps by ~40°F on the airboxes and maybe 15-20°F in ambient temps.
     
  8. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
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    #58 Targatime, Jan 31, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
    I'll know soon enough, still have the car taken apart. So far I've wrapped the cats in heat blankets, will have a 1/2" thick heat blanket covering the engine-facing side of the stock muffler, fabricated CV boot shields (basically copied the NLA Gothspeed ones), replaced the shielding on the muffler/bumper shield (mine was worn through in a couple places), and am looking at options for the Y-pipe, which gets especially hot in high performance driving. I might try to wrap a couple sections of it in heat blanketing. Am also fabbing shields for the engine mounts, a rubber part that of course is three inches from 600 degree F headers.

    I know this all maybe sounds crazy but what I find actually insane is the factory setup where the entire exhaust system for a high-revving V8 is inside the engine bay just baking the hell out of everything. The factory ran the collectors/cat junction inches from exposed CV boots and then put a "heat shield" on top of the boot that does virtually nothing to block radiation, which doesn't come from above but from the side. It's sort of amazingly dumb, and a huge part of why the 355 has a reputation as a maintenance nightmare. So I'm going to try to improve on it.
     
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  9. kenneyd

    kenneyd Formula 3
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    What muffler is that?
     
  10. Culprit

    Culprit Formula Junior
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    Nouvalari Sport. Happy with it. Sounds great when the valve is open, and is just comfortable enough when in traffic.
     
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  11. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
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    I'll have a more detailed writeup soon, but my heat shielding project seems to be working pretty well. I have a laser temp gun and temps on the surface of blanketed items like the cats show around 50% lower temps than non-blanketed parts of the exhaust. And purely by observation, it's clear there's much less engine bay heat now. I don't get the heatwaves looking out the rear view mirror when parked anymore. Will write more later and post some data.
     
  12. Carmellini

    Carmellini Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2019
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    Wish I found this before I started a cross thread....good info....lets keep it going.....

    Noah, can you give us more info about your work?

    I have read that the material within the header clamshell breaks down; does that mean it is a good idea (perhaps during engine out) to open these up and re pack?

    How does this compart to Inconel, which seems to be the rage?

    Exhaust shield does not seem very effective? Would it be better to start from scratch, or could Zircotec or Inconel simply be laid on top of it?

    Finally, I have read posts about using adhesive gold foil on the underside of the air filter boxes. ????
     
  13. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
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    I am remiss in not updating this thread....I heat shielded a few things and will post pics tonight or tomorrow.

    1. Engine mounts
    2. CV boots (still trying to find the Gothspeed ones -- I fabbed my own from galvanized sheet steel, ugly but functional)
    3. AC compressor and alternator (they each sit inches from the front/bottom of the headers)
    4. Front face of the muffler, to protect the clutch/flywheel
    5. Re-lined the top and rear factory muffler shields with modern shielding material

    My goal here was just to increase the reliability of the 355, as it remains astounding to me that the entire exhaust runs inside the engine bay in close proximity to lots of rubber, plastic, and electrical parts, and is basically unshielded.

    Re CV boots, a tip I received from an experienced 355 wrench: cut a 2-3" piece of red plastic carb cleaner tube and slide it under the outer lip of the boot to create ventilation for when the exhaust heats up the air inside the boot and bulges the boots outward. No grease will come out. (I haven't done this since I fabbed shields)

    Seems to me not at all necessary. The clamshell basically cuts down on radiant heat, and the stuffing inside doesn't seem to do much. If you're gonna open up stock headers, you may as well have them re-tubed while you're in there.

    I'm sure Iconel is a little better, but seems like total overkill for a street-driven 355 given the price difference.

    I would just re-line the exhaust shield with better material. I'll dig up a link to the stuff I used. And I didn't put any foil under the air filter boxes. I'm okay with missing out on that 1/10th of a horsepower.

    I also have installed cat delete pipes, which make a HUGE difference in engine bay heat. And surprisingly very little difference in exhaust noise. I wrapped the pipes in DEI 1/2" thick heat blanket. You go from dual unshielded cats pumping 600F into the engine bay to virtually no additional heat.
     
  14. Flynt

    Flynt Rookie

    Aug 23, 2013
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    Anybody run "aero" CV boots like this. They're a factory part on the F50. Pic shows them extended but I think normally the rubber part is mostly inside the shield/flange.
    Doesn't help with engine bay temp but should help with boot destruction..

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  15. Carmellini

    Carmellini Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2019
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  16. Culprit

    Culprit Formula Junior
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    Wouldn't mind seeing those pics if you do find the time.
     
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  17. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
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    Ok here are some pics, apologies for the delay.

    First, the shield that sits between the muffler and rear bumper. On my car I found the original material was fraying at the edges and had rubbed through in several places. Simple fix, remove the worn material, cut the new stuff to fit, and attach it to the fiberglass backing. I used DEI's "floor and tunnel shield II" which has a high-heat adhesive backing:

    https://www.designengineering.com/floor-tunnel-shield-ii-21-x-48/


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  18. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
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  19. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
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    #69 Targatime, Apr 16, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2022

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  20. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
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    The other thing it's a no-brainer to shield is the engine mounts, which are rubber and sit a few inches below the headers and are the kind of part that on other cars lasts 100K miles but on ours last a small fraction of that simply because of heat. A while back someone on this forum DIY'd a shield design that works brilliantly and posted a PDF. I used some galvanized sheet metal, cut out the shields with tin snips, and covered them with the adhesive DEI shielding. Super easy project and they look great. I am re-attaching the PDF. In the pics that show them installed you can also see the AC/alternator shields.




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  21. Carmellini

    Carmellini Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2019
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    Nice work! And thanks for posting the MM diagram.
     
  22. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Supersprint made some nice shields for their headers. Never came across installed pics. Not sure exactly how they mount, but something like it would cover quite a bit.



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