Malaysia Airlines loses contact with B777-200 enroute from KUL to PEK | Page 47 | FerrariChat

Malaysia Airlines loses contact with B777-200 enroute from KUL to PEK

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by Peloton25, Mar 7, 2014.

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  1. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    A new search seems pretty pointless. Everyone is convinced it wasn't a mechanical issue. That's the only thing worth really knowing.
     
  2. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
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    Honestly, i don't think this story has an end...and never will...
     
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  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Yup, not like the one off Brazil where Airbus really, really wanted to prove it was not a mechanical problem.
     
  4. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ
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    AF447

    And, I will never fly Air France again. Poor pilot training.
     
  5. Nicolas21

    Nicolas21 Formula Junior

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    How that ? Could you explain me please ?
     
  6. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    They blamed it on the pilot. Read the investigation.
     
  7. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ
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    #1157 KKSBA, Feb 9, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
    Hi Nicolas, welcome to F-chat!

    Co-pilot Bonin made a repeated huge mistake.

    You can read the history or watch this reasonable re-creation-

     
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  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Holding the stick full back while in a stall is not conducive to regaining control.
     
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  9. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ
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    #1159 KKSBA, Feb 9, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
    Many of us would think that is self-evident, but perhaps chanting 100 times for new pilots might be de-rigueur. ;)

    PS - In Scare-bus's defense, they did indicate "stall-stall" warning only occurs down to some low number of knots, can't remember exactly, let's say 50. If your less than that the stall warning auto-silences because, you know, the plane thinks it's on the ground.

    Except, well, the weight-on-wheels sensor is not consulted in the software for that, so if you are less than that your stall warning silences.

    At the end, full-stab up trim which the captain notices at T-minus 10 or whatever -- too late

    So now you have these guys, and very unfortunate SLF that are along for a very unfortunate end of their lives.

    The "pilots" thought that the stall warning ending at 50 or whatever knots meant they were out of the stall, and when they pulled back from ZERO kts and got to 50 they got the stall warning again they immediately did the opposite to get rid of the stall warning, even though they were just WAY beyond the flight envelope.

    Bottom line,

    THERE IS NO REASON TO STALL AN AIRCRAFT.

    THERE IS NO REASON TO STALL AN AIRCRAFT AT CRUISE ALTITUDE.

    THERE IS NO...

    fill in the blank but the two most important ones are covered ;)
     
  10. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ
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    pitch and power = memorize it for your aircraft and the profiles

    447 would still be alive if they did

    or avoid full aft yoke at cruise all times in less your auto-rotating a helicopter, and then it would be full aft cyclic and only sometimes :D
     
  11. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    True, but it doesn't necessarily mean you are out of control. If you keep the plane level using rudder the plane will mush or buck downward with the nose repeatably falling and rising. Great rudder exercise. Not sure how easy it would be to do this in a large airplane, but in a GA airplane very doable (at least when you have a visual horizon).
     
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  12. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Yes. Been there, done that.
     
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  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jim- They probably had a 20,000 fpm rate of descent in that deep stall. They were out of control, but stable. If you hit the ground or water in a flat, stable stall, you were out of control.
     
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  14. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    CFIT:D
     
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  15. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    There were Airbus design factors which made AF447 more likely to happen, but even taking those into account, a competent crew should never have let it get that far. And, indeed, several US crews had similar mechanical issues and all of them handled it with minimal fuss.
     
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  16. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

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    It wasn't that long ago Air France pilots had a glass of red with their meals ...
     
  17. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ
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    CFIW
     
  18. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ
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    +330
     
  19. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Do they not do that any more? When did that change?
     
  20. Ferrari 308 GTB

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    Early nineties i believe,i never flew with them so just what i heard back then.Crew meals had a small bottle of wine packed with them.
     
  21. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ
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    My very close friend and pilot mentor was a Presidential pilot for Nixon-Ford and on an outing in the Caribbean on Martinique the French presidential helicopter pilots had red wine for lunch.

    when it changed, or did not?, no guess.
     
  22. Nicolas21

    Nicolas21 Formula Junior

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    #1172 Nicolas21, Feb 11, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
    Thank you for the video!!! :)
    I don't know why but it remembers me the Quiberon crash. I was 6 yo, on the beach and I witnessed the accident in its entirety.

    Even now I have nightmares
     
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  23. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula 3

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    Thanks for sharing, makes me wonder if the impact was such that these kinds of fragments are all that will ever be found. In my limited experience flying in GA, I tend to believe that *if* only fragments are ever found, it would support a theory of deliberate controlled flight into the ocean. It's just not natural for an intact, but uncontrolled airframe to impact with enough force to prevent large chunks of debris from being found on the ocean floor ... so, I hope adequate evidence will be found someday.
    - Art
     
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  24. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
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    Someone should grab that Gibson, and give him some staff and a budget, and see what he can come up with. He seems to have found most of the plane pieces on his own dime.
     
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