F12 tdf market price thread | Page 43 | FerrariChat

F12 tdf market price thread

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Ferrari 308 Vetro, Nov 9, 2015.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,582
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    of2worlds, C50 and gzachary like this.
  2. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
  3. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    And... he changed his mind, decided to keep it.
     
  4. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
    1,160
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Barry K
    Not being able to sell at that price, even after 2 price cuts, is a more likely explanation, especially when Tom Hartley was selling lower mile cars for about £50k less back in the summer.
     
    Times and ewright like this.
  5. ppg70

    ppg70 Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2017
    928
    of2worlds likes this.
  6. roma1280

    roma1280 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 2, 2010
    4,207
    Palm Beach, Roma
    Will be interesting to see if the 812 tdf/gto or whatever it will be called (that is going to be announced any day now) will cause a price increase in F12 tdf as people that missed out on an allocation to the go-faster 812 will decide to buy an F12 tdf instead. Or maybe people that do get the 812 VS will start thinking about buying an F12 tdf and a 599 GTO to have the set. Either way think 812 VS will be good for TdF values as presumably it will be priced at $1.2m or more.
     
    Caeruleus11 likes this.
  7. nads

    nads Formula Junior

    Jun 4, 2008
    875
    London, UK
    #1057 nads, Feb 13, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
    I believe going forward over time the GTO/TDF/812 VS's will form a collectors subset of modern day Ferrari's very much in the line of how the 288 GTO/F40/F50/Enzo developed as a collectible set. Especially if the 812 VS's end up being the last of the big block unassisted V12's as we know them today. What will be interesting to see is how the collectibility dynamic and price points will develop between the three.
     
    Caeruleus11, gzachary and roma1280 like this.
  8. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2007
    8,930
    I wonder if the looks of the 812 will hold it back? History shows it doesnt seem to matter as much +30yrs
     
    roma1280 likes this.
  9. roma1280

    roma1280 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 2, 2010
    4,207
    Palm Beach, Roma
    I’d sure like to have 599GTO, F12 Tdf, 812 VS and for that matter 360 CS, 430 scud, 458 speciale, 488 pista and now that you mention it also 16M, speciale aperta, pista spider and while we are at it 288,F40, F50, etc etc
     
  10. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    Inclusive? What % is buyer's premium at that auction?
     
  11. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
  12. ppg70

    ppg70 Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2017
    928
    15%
    they withdrew when they saw it stuck at 640
     
  13. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    So bid of €640k = $775k, plus 15% ($116k) premium = $891k. Seems about right.
     
  14. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
    1,160
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Barry K
    #1064 BarryK, Feb 13, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
    Actually bid premium for the Paris auction was 12.5% (except for the first 200k euros @ 15%).. I was bidding (and was outbid ) on one of the adjacent lots (348 GT Competizione Michelotto) and was surprised how soft the tdf lot was especially with its history as the launch car. There was certainly money to spend in that room today. Judging by the bidding action, it seemed that the 640k high bid was a house bid, presumably still below the reserve... Cars in the UK and here in Germany are now selling around the 600k eur area, so clearly no one was prepared to pay 700k+ euros for this special tdf..
     
  15. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    €640k + 15% 1st 200k (€30k) + 12.5% balance (€55k) = €725k = $877k.
     
  16. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
    1,160
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Barry K
    Exactly. The car is still for sale at 750k euros which is still more than the high bid's all in. Either the seller is holding out for a new bidder or the high bid was from the house. Normally, if there was a deal to be done the house would tighten their two premiums to facilitate the sale to the high bidder.

    In the end, this one is all about the premium for being the launch car.
     
  17. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    Do you think therefore those restrictions are likely going to impact classic and older cars as well? Classic / f40/f50/enzo/288gto etc.. surely those cars are far less fuel efficient than the tdf
     
  18. Scraggy

    Scraggy Formula 3

    Apr 2, 2012
    2,064
    England
    Full Name:
    Scraggy
    I think Cities will be zero emissions, no grandfathering, not sure when.
     
    mclaren slr likes this.
  19. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,858
    On one hand, I think its fairly easy to see the writing on the wall for cities.

    However. Allow me to present the other side of the argument.

    Electric vehicles are expensive and require charging infrastructure that is largely unavailable for most normal people- especially inside cities. You know, those are the ones who are left behind from all the wealthy emptying out of the cities. They are also the ones who cannot afford to pay the premium for electric vehicles... or the premium to park in garages.

    I don’t think the cities have truly been emptied of ALL their wealthy people. So I am painting with a pretty broad brush, however....

    Prediction: ICE isn’t going away as fast as many think. Most of these “green cities” initiatives involve removing street parking. Don’t they see they are hurting the ones they purport to help?! Just imagine trying to take away cars from regular people... we saw what happened with the yellow vests protests. This could be even worse. Remember most of those regular people also have a political voice.

    I’m not saying I am right, just pointing out an alternate view. 2030 feels too soon to me.




    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
    Bundy, Eilig and JackCongo like this.
  20. 2006m5

    2006m5 Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2008
    912
    huntingdon valley PA
    I don’t think the ICE cars will go away ...they will tax us....and then we decide.
    Its all a game..for the governments .
     
    Caeruleus11 and italiafan like this.
  21. [gTr]

    [gTr] Formula 3

    Mar 11, 2008
    1,024
    Hamburg, Germany
    I think these Euro rules are hogwash. Wait till 2025 arrives and folks start to lose jobs in Germany/Italy/France/UK due to move to electric and large scale disruptions to supply chains. The can kicking will start ASAP when populists start to win elections. Car Industry is the new Coal. This transition will be very long, very hard and very troubled.
     
    Bundy and Caeruleus11 like this.
  22. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    That is more where i see the risk as well on future values of tho cars. With populism on the rise in europe which is worsened by the pandemics if and when they come to power ( or exercise greater influence on governments) i see a danger for future values. Combine 1) future zero emission zones and the fact younger generations and society pay less interest to ICE 2) populist on the rise / green movements pushing taxes on petrol and capital gains higher 3) future huge in increase in cost of maintenance and spare parts 4) massive oversupply of exotic supercars and the cqse of tdf 1500+ or so coming ( 812 vs coupe and aperta) 5) impact from pandemics and social perception of luxury 6) potentially rising interest from rising inflation expectations it’s difficult to see clearly how those could bounce back in value in the short or even medium term . I’m saying this but my heart and passion tell me the opposite but my reason tries to speak here.
     
    Scraggy and Caeruleus11 like this.
  23. leopoldo

    leopoldo Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2013
    655
    Full Name:
    mark1
    Imho 599 GTO and f12 TDF will significantly raise up in value on the next months. The 812 VS will be a super car in terms of performances but I think most Ferrari’s ambassador do prefer sounds instead of performances ( see speciale vs pistas for example ) . 812 vs will be very fast but I don’t think she will sound as good as 12tdf and even more not like the glorious 599 GTO.
     
  24. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    I would tend to think the same but look at f12 prices from 812 supply and speciales vs pista. Most people here thought the 812 and pista initially did not have the road presence of their predecessors whose values hugely reduced. The pista spider though very limited and rare is at best selling at breakeven if the 812vs is another limited not numbered its price will ve capped like pista spider and i think that can have an effect on tdf. I’m curious why so many owners an collectors in no need of money in the last 18 month have been either selling or trying to sell their tdf.
     
  25. [gTr]

    [gTr] Formula 3

    Mar 11, 2008
    1,024
    Hamburg, Germany
    #1075 [gTr], Mar 8, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
    The selling of the F12TDF makes sense to me. There are a couple of factors:
    1. The 2 year embargo is over
    2. How many limited/semi limited editions can one park in a garage. Ferrari has released the Pista Spider, Monza, 812 GTS, SF90Stradle Coupe and Spider and now the 812 VS in roughly the same or higher price bracket. With F12TDF prices levelling off where is the incentive to hold on to it? Not everyone wants a 20+ car garage even if they can afford it comfortably and if you are not buying the latest greatest then you don't get to play the game.
     

Share This Page