V-12 Engine into 308 Build, over on Grassroots

So your at the race and all ready at 10 but you need just a little more, what you do? In a normal Ferrari there's nothing you can do, 10 is all there is but this was specially made, it goes to 11.... 1 faster.

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You matched that incredibly well Mark. I've seen a number of 10k rpm 911 tach conversions and they never look totally right

 

Thanks. Its not supposed to and going to fool anyone but I thought it a nice touch both the modifications that figuratively turn it up to 11 and the fact that the movie "this is spinal tap" is from 1984, just like the car so a period correct joke

 

Who did the rub on transfer?

sjd

 

Obviously you now need a speedo that goes to 211

 

Nice touch mk e, though I assume you're aware that the good people at SVD (Singer) have been equipping their cars with similar rev counters for the last 10 years ?

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Great in theory, but it's a horrible engine (harsh sounding, hardly the last word in smoothness and it's whole raison d'etre seems to centre on providing a turbo boosted smack in the back whilst providing huge amounts of low down torque, and it's a 1750cc engine, not a 2 litre btw) whilst that formula is so beloved of the masses these days, it's hardly what the thrill of driving is about. And as for the 4C's transmission ...

The little Alfa should have had a manual 'box and a tuned 4 cam/4 valve V6 Busso pushing out 300hp, that allied to some properly engineered suspension would have made for something very special indeed (and a proper drivers car) but Alfa reverted to type instead :



And for those still bitter and twisted about Mike's Honda K24 engined 308 transplant, this should prove equally irritating.

Spoiler. It's a 246 Dino being hacked to make way for the fitment of a F136 engine from a 458 Italia by those fine artisans at Mototechnique

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLKxbdslP6l/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLJe4aoFBRf/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Zut alors !!

 

these guys made from the artwork I sent
https://customrubontransfers.com/

If you need the CAD model the artwork was generated from let me know.

I did a little video that kind of explains the process.

 

No, never heard of them....I'm not a Porsche guy. I will point out though that I moved the redline to 11 too

 

I don't know how bothered to ever be about putting a more powerful ferrari engine in their ferrari.....maybe not ideal but not blasphemous either .

Here's one with a turbo 308 engine I think he said.

 

So I have been honing every night all week and all day today and here's where it sits....Everything worth trying to hone is honed and pretty round and straight. The old hone just loved to do a wobble at the top and cleaning it up took out a lot of material. I kind or worked from worst to best so by about 1/2 way though I knew the goal was get it in the 1-2 thou over pile regardless or where it cleaned up.

So once they are all done, lets say at about 2 thou over I can send the pistons for coating and they will fit perfect. The rings are another matter as they are intended for a bore that is to size. That whole nitrous thought means they need more gap and in a +2 bore they will be good for a 200-300hp shot I guess. Normally that means cold cranking compression and vacuum would be pretty low but luckily I decided to use gapless rings (which is a misnomer, in reality the 2nd compression ring is actually 2 rings with the gaps 180 degrees apart yielding leak little leakage) so I think this is going to work out just fine for both performance and streetability whether I actually ever add nitrous or not.



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Tomorrow when I'm fresh I'll remeasure and sped the day futzing to get them matched as well as I can and a nice finish on all of them and hopefully dump the oil in the recycle bucket and pack the home up to go home to Wade....couldn't have done the job without it but after tomorrow I'm hoping to never see it again :lol:



About lunchtime today I decided the oil in the tank was more sludge than oil so I switched from my WD-40+motor oil mix to the goodson honing oil.....and was surprised how slow it cut so I poured about 1 quart of mineral spirits in which fixed it right up.

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Great update Mark. Exhausting I’m sure.

I can’t say I’ve experienced super amazing results with gapless rings. Little bit better? Absolutely. Think from 4% leak to 3% type difference.

 

Really? On my QV I had 0% leaddown at 80psi(compression limit)....but that was tested warm, 2-3 cold iirc, so you tested cold? My thought at the moment, and it may be wishful thinking, is that rings that end up with a .012-.015 gap would land at about 10-12% leakdown cold, maybe 8-10 warm and 2% hot with the nitrous on., but I'm hoping the gapless deliver 2-3% cold and 0-1% hot....hoping......

 

The odyssey has ended, the cylinders are honed, the mess cleaned up. These are not the best cylinders ever produced but they are no doubt the best I've ever produced. Before I owner a bore gauge every cylinder I ever touched was within a 1/2 thou of target and perfectly round and straight......now I know better. I kind of wish hadn't fitted a 1/10th indicator to the gauge so I know exactly how not perfect they are. 10 are within 4 tenths which is the modern OEM spec so not it looks awful on my huge gauge, its right. The other 2 are 7 and 10 tenths and I just could get them better without making a new fixture....but even those 2 are better than anything I've done in the past so I'm going to call it pretty good and be satisfied if not completely happy....I really wish I had not change the indicator on the gauge.

Tomorrow I will clean up the hone and get it packed up for shipping home with a big THANK YOU to Wade. Also I need to pack up the pistons so get them shipped for coating. My plan will be to get the main bearings clearances set properly while I'm waiting on the pistons....then put it together

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I’m guessing your pistons aren’t all perfect either. Maybe you can put the + pistons into the + liners to tighten the numbers a little.
Keep up the good work and documentation!

 

How many years has this build been going on? Love the work but wonderimg if it will ever get finished.

 

Finished? The whole point of having a toy is to play with it to not finish playing with it. It's been 13 years with the V12 which is my 4th engine build for this car.....and Lana says the last engine I get for this car.

 

Missed this.

The pistons are all the same within about +/-.0001", JE does good work. Now that I know the finished bore sized I will ship them to:
https://www.line2linecoatings.com/

As I said earlier, the clearance is now .006" and more than I wanted by about .0025" but is perfectly within the range these type pistons (2618 forging) are used and is the required clearance for a high boost or nitrous applications.....so now I NEED to add nitrous. Normally with this much clearance they would probably rattle a little until the engine warms up properly but the coating fixes that. They will add a coating that tightens the piston clearance to about 1/4 the normally require metal to metal clearance and the coating to conform to the cylinders making it quite and they say lower friction. These pistons have about a 50k mile street life expectancy (they are much stronger than cast pistons, but also softer so they wear faster) and the coating will easily survive the piston life so all is fine if not what I originally planned.

 

Do you know what I did on the car last night? Nothing! I'm pushing pretty hard to having it running for spring and Lana has quite a growing list for me but decided I deserved a break last night.

Tonight I'll pack up the pistons. The coating place says 10 day turnaround, plus shipping times I guess 3-4 weeks so I need to get to it.

Fitting the crank properly is next. Because the block readings were coming out a bit wonky I had the machine shop leave the crank on the high spec for -.010 undersize and will line lap the main journals. Shipping a lapping bar without damaging it means a create and still worrying so I asked Wade to measure his bar and it's 6 tenths undersize so I ordered a 24" long x 2.625 Dia (+0/-.0005) ground steel bar from mcmaster....but not in keeping with mcmaster reputation for EVERYTHING is in stock and delivered the next day, they said 2 week delivery. 24" long is $193, 36" which would probably be better is $280....but 24" fits in my lathe so I can sand it down to the desired OD relatively easily and will just make it end to end in the block if I weld on an extension so I can turn it. Hopefully this will be all done by the time the pistons arrive home.

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YAY. Go Mark. Best build on the interwebz no contest. I'm heading up for a ride when you're 'done', or at least running and driving.

 

Hopefully after 13 years this build will soon no longer be happing. I'm thinking it will at least make noise again roundabout late April...actually driving should come next....should

Left to do is
1) fit the main bearings
2) at least confirm cam journal size (remember I did some lapping already)...but I'll assume there is more to do
3) clay the pistons. I STILL have a borrowed piston vise waiting on this set to be sure I cut enough clearance
4) There was something very not right with the timing chain, the engine only turned forward and I couldn't figure out why....I need to figure that out this time because the only thing I can think is there was a loop in the chain at the bottom sprocket I couldn't see. I have it apart and together 5 or 6 times, always the same result. I'm told ferrari added a guide to the bottom on the 412 so that is where I'm headed I think
5) Assemble and install I guess.....

 

Cleaning up a little this morning before moving on to installing the liners and heads and spotted a screw in the pile. This particular screw is what I used to hold the windscreen to the fairing in my H-D roadrace bike which last lasted in ...1996? and 4 workshops ago. Not really sure how it ended up on the floor of a shop built 20 years later but I laughed at both the fact that it did and maybe more so that I knew exactly what it was but I can't usually remember the name of the guy I met yesterday much less 20 years ago



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Other important morning work is replacing the 4 rusted steering wheel screws wiht 6 new ones and the dash screw I lost years ago.
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The cylinders are back in the block and heads are back on other than torquing....it takes forever to get the frikin nuts on.

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I hate, hate, hate....etc... Those friggen nuts... That location is a major PITA!
Want sadistic?.. I once had to pull the heads off a 328 whilst it still sat in the engine bay.... Yah... Still have nightmares about that one... Never again.

Have a drink... You earned it!

 

and just think, I'll get to do it at least 2 more times! This is just so I can fit the main bearings properly and also probably look at what was up with the timing chain while the pistons are out so no worry of anything hitting. Then apart, add pistons with clay, together and turn over, then apart to measure the clay then maybe together for good. It took about 2 hours to get the nuts on, it will take about 1 hour to get them off....so I literally have hours of fun left ahead of me.