Turn the key and it's dead | FerrariChat

Turn the key and it's dead

Discussion in '308/328' started by redqv, Feb 17, 2021.

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  1. redqv

    redqv Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 26, 2015
    127
    Almost Oregon, California
    Full Name:
    Ron Stevens
    I recently removed an old alarm system, an Alpine thing with a million wires, and thought I had it right. It seems the most critical connection would be the white wire that attachs to the ignition switch and goes to the starter motor. It had been cut during the alarm installation and a wire from the Alarm was attached. I re-connected the white wires thinking this would complete the circuit to the starter motor. What I don't know is, is there something between the ignition switch and the starter motor. Some fuse or connector? Or could there have been a break in the Battery circuit wire? I have talked to Alpine a couple of times and they have tried to be helpful, but because of Covid they have not been in the office and can't get a diagram to me (if it even exists). I know a few FChaters have removed alarms. Would anyone know what my next step should be to trouble shoot?
     
  2. GT4andMore

    GT4andMore Karting

    Oct 23, 2020
    63
    Full Name:
    Graham
    I recently removed an old Clifford alarm. It had cut the ignition wires and also the fuel pump. I took it very slowly and every time I removed something or reconnected something I made sure that everything was still working so as to be able to back out the change if I ended up with a problem. In your case, if you reconnect the alarm does the starter turn?
    In addition to the ignition and fuel pump connections there was a bunch of stuff associated with flashing lights, honking horns and locking doors.
    This was on a 308GT4 which might be simpler however the starter circuit is very simple so if the starter is dead I would ensure you check the earth circuit and whether you have 12v on the starter motor when you turn the ignition key to start.
    These old alarms are a liability so you'll feel better once it is out and your wiring loom is solid and doing the job it was made for.
     
  3. ProvaMo

    ProvaMo Formula Junior

    Jun 29, 2004
    308
    Mid West
    Full Name:
    Paul John
    I would start with the correct wiring diagram (this is a popular ferrarichat wiring diagram source) for your year/type, and a good voltmeter to track down where you're potentially (no-pun) losing voltage...
     
  4. redqv

    redqv Karting
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    Jan 26, 2015
    127
    Almost Oregon, California
    Full Name:
    Ron Stevens
    Yes. I am in the process of doing that. I have all of Paul Bennett's drawings which are very helpful, and I am tracing each wire. The alarm had a cut out relay which may be the source of the problem and I can't remember how I disconnected it. But the good news is, once I finally figure this out I will know every square inch of under the dash. I think that's a good thing?
     
  5. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,685
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    Yeah...aftermarket alarm systems are one of the worst things to ever happen to cars! Get it out of there with the help of the OEM wiring diagram and you and the car will be far better for it. As mentioned, it may take a while to sort everything out/return it to OEM but it will be worth it!
     
  6. daynyc

    daynyc Karting
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    Aug 5, 2016
    79
    I don't mean to be controversial and I'm just looking for expert guidance. My 1985 308QV had an Alpine system. I got rid of some obvious pieces (e.g. the alarm itself) but decided to leave the rest alone for fear of unintended consequences. What is the downside of just leaving the rest of the extra wiring intact if everything is working nicely?
     
  7. redqv

    redqv Karting
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    Jan 26, 2015
    127
    Almost Oregon, California
    Full Name:
    Ron Stevens
    When looking at Paul Bennett's diagram "power distribution and starter circuits" it shows a white wire going from the start position to the starter, but has two little "v" things down near the starter. Is that a relay, and if so where is the little darling. Is it the same as the "Engine Start Relay". I am talking about the larger of the two white wires coming off the ignition switch.
     
  8. redqv

    redqv Karting
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    Jan 26, 2015
    127
    Almost Oregon, California
    Full Name:
    Ron Stevens
    I thought the same thing but decided to clear out as much wire as I could. I swear i had the car start when I completed the removal about 2 months ago. But now nothing. It very well may not be an alarm removal problem. Removing the wires were not that hard, just time consuming. My conversation with Alpine indicted that the only problem was to reconnect the white wire which I did and is has continuity up to where it disappears into the firewall.
     
  9. ProvaMo

    ProvaMo Formula Junior

    Jun 29, 2004
    308
    Mid West
    Full Name:
    Paul John
    Based on what you said and that
    Based on what you said, and that it's been two months, is it possible that you have a secondary/separate issue... i.e. starter solenoid or starter commutator? If the white wire is what provides power to the starter/solenoid, then perhaps have someone turn the key while (safely) checking voltage at the solenoid(?)
     
  10. redqv

    redqv Karting
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    Jan 26, 2015
    127
    Almost Oregon, California
    Full Name:
    Ron Stevens
    Yes, I think you are right. I came to a similar conclusion in the middle of the night. Stay tuned
     
  11. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2013
    291
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    The white wire goes through a connector block on the left hand side of the engine bay near the expansion tank and feeds the solenoid . I used this point once to verify whether my starter solenoid was playing up, or the issue was further forward. On mine it turned out to be the starter solenoid.
     
  12. redqv

    redqv Karting
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    Jan 26, 2015
    127
    Almost Oregon, California
    Full Name:
    Ron Stevens
    Thank you, that is very helpful!


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  13. redqv

    redqv Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 26, 2015
    127
    Almost Oregon, California
    Full Name:
    Ron Stevens
    Well the saga is over. The car is running. Thank you Freddie328 and ProvaMo. I spent quite a bit of time under dash, not so easy for an old guy with only one good eye, but I solved the mystery. I'd love to tell you what the problem was, but it would be just too embarrassing!
     
    Freddie328 likes this.

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