812 VS Rumors | Page 174 | FerrariChat

812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. Trax

    Trax Formula 3

    May 26, 2005
    1,382
    UK
    Full Name:
    Douglas
    Hate to say it but I have a feeling that Ferrari will push the price up so their shar holders get the "premium" rather than the customer

    I'm not really sure how Ferrari will meet their earnings targets but doubling the price from the 812 would probably get there
     
  2. Luque

    Luque Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2009
    484
    Italy
    mmm no.
    Variable Length Intake Manifold are not present in the F140CE engine (599 GTO)
    The first V12 2-stage lenght application are from the Enzo (F140B engine) while the F50 was the first to have a 2 stage lenght via butterfly (F130B engine)
    The first continuous variable length Intake is from laferrari (F140FE) followed by a similar system in F12 TDF (F140FG) and 812SF ( F140GA)

    Ciao
    Luque
     
    Solid State and roma1280 like this.
  3. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
    Full Name:
    A.B
    Mmmmmm, well, then you might be able to enlighten us to what was the "special" feature of the GTO?

    Ciao
     
  4. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    A.B
    It's not difficult, but it will make a lot of power doing so.

    If we calculate using the torque potential based on the volume, it would result in an engine pushing about 910-930 bhp. If they use solid followers like they did in the TdF it is most certainly possible to raise the rpm another 1500 rpm. The bore and stroke is not that much all things considered. If you look at what some other engines have for piston speed, it is not that far fetched. The piston speed of the 6.5 litre V12 will be similar to the 458 engine revving to 9000 rpm, if not less. The bob weight can be brought down by using titanium connecting rods like in the Pista - lots of possibilities The main thing is that it will take quite a bit of cam duration, and thus it will create an engine that is pretty raunchy. Main issue will be valve springs and retainers as the springs will need a fairly high spring rate. Every time you move up the peaks, you take away from the lower end, that's just basic engine dynamics. It would make for a very cool engine though.
     
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  5. DrUmBeAsT

    DrUmBeAsT Rookie

    Jul 13, 2016
    12
    Cologne
    Full Name:
    Bo
    That is exactly my point, you are not able to use all the power.. Much less on public roads. I am pretty sure the capabilities of the car exceed the limits of driving skills of a majority of the people who own this car. In my opinion the car has more than enough power, however I don't think customers would be happy if the special version of this car didn't have more HP than the regular car.
     
    Gianfranco341, roma1280 and rossodino like this.
  6. spyderman

    spyderman Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,594
    Toronto - Canada
    Full Name:
    Spyderman
    The Monza not being a pure V12 because you may have to wear a helmet, does wearing sunglasses count too? The 812 GTS is not a pure V12 because it has a GPF?? Have you heard the sound of the V12? You forgot to add that any regular naturally aspirated V12 with catalytic converter‘s are also not a pure V12 as well...rolling my eyes
     
    stavura, DRYHOLE, Avia11 and 4 others like this.
  7. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    572
    #4332 Forza Scuderia, Feb 19, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
    I qualified my perspective by saying specifically the last pure Ferrari V12 road car you could buy in my opinion was the 812 Superfast.

    Monza totally pure V12 but not a true road car due to not being street legal in Ferrari’s largest market and the necessity of wearing a helmet even where streetable.

    GTC4 Lusso even though pure V12 and clearly road car, while having been launched after the 812 Superfast, the GTC4 Lusso is not the last pure V12 one could buy because it was taken out of production while the 812 Superfast was still in production. Plus Lusso was a bread van so come on.

    812 GTS is awesome and V12 magnificent however not quite pure due to GPF. Yes they still managed to make it sound great. But it’s different. Maybe it’s 90% as good. But it’s different. Doesn’t have quite the edge of the unrestrained 812 SF. Is there anyone who would prefer the GPF V12 to the non-GPF V12 other than eccentric environmentalists? So yes with qualification of pure V12 the Superfast was last, not the GTS.

    If 812 VS cars have any engine assistance device whatsoever they are also not pure in my opinion. Pure means unassisted in my view.

    So yes ... wrap your head around it lads ... the last ever pure Ferrari V12 road car you were able to buy was the 812 Superfast.
     
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  8. mytoys

    mytoys Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2015
    387
    CA
    Full Name:
    mytoys
    Got a heads up message from my dealer yesterday and received the email/video today. I guess not all emails were sent on the same day.
     
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  9. Scudmsl

    Scudmsl Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 12, 2014
    837
    USA
    Congrats! Did you have to update your privacy settings first?
     
  10. Texas2step

    Texas2step Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2018
    299
    Full Name:
    Bola olusola
    Congrats!!
     
  11. mytoys

    mytoys Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2015
    387
    CA
    Full Name:
    mytoys
    I did.
     
  12. Scudmsl

    Scudmsl Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 12, 2014
    837
    USA
    Same here but still crickets...
     
  13. gef3rd

    gef3rd Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 21, 2009
    375
    Palos Verdes Estates
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    George
    stavura, Caeruleus11, 456-boy and 6 others like this.
  14. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
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    A.B
    Before you start condescending to us, why don't you answer what some of us asked you. What is your personal experience with the 812 SF and the 812 GTS?

    You say the GTS is different, and you say the GTS does not have the "edge" over the SF what ever that even means in the context of a cars purity in relation to GPF. You might want to try and understand that the cars sound is not what defines its purity, that's simply nonsense. The GPF revs equally fast, is equally as smooth etc. Aside from the sound, which is purely a subjective thing, ALL tangible things are pretty much the same.

    If you don't know the cars personally, how do you know what the cars are? It is fine to have an opinion, but you state it as fact, especially with that last remark.
     
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  15. Robert guth

    Robert guth Rookie

    Sep 29, 2018
    16
    Mooresville, NC
    Full Name:
    Rober E. Guth
    I'm afraid the hoops you're jumping through to make your case are getting wider and wider. Can't we just all agree that each of these variations has an appeal to some, and let go of the absolutes for a little while . . . .
     
  16. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    15,983
    Menlo Park, CA
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    Paul Chua
    I agree with @spyderman and @Il Co-Pilota - saying a car with GPF is not a pure V12 is exactly like the analogy given with a catalytic converter. It's a bit of stretch.
     
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  17. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    15,983
    Menlo Park, CA
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    Paul Chua
    Yes, I personally appreciate his passion, but there's definitely a strange dogma attached to it that's a bit off-kilter. Perhaps is a language/translation issue?
     
  18. j09333

    j09333 Formula 3

    May 7, 2004
    1,142
    If one drives f12, ff, tdf, 812, lusso, 812 gts.... one could tell f12 is the most pure and honest car than any other. Rws is not pure lol

    Anyway, lets stop this nonsense and if anyone doesn’t agree with you, then move on and dont fight to make a case.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  19. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

    May 18, 2011
    2,374
    Arizona & Kentucky
    Full Name:
    Anir
    Agree completely. I love our 812 but the RWS is definitely somewhat artificial. The I-wanna-kill-you-with-throttle-lift-oversteer F12 feel is definitely more pure but arguably a bit scary.
     
    Solid State likes this.
  20. ForeverCar

    ForeverCar Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2017
    307
    What are those round “outlets” (bottom left & right)? They don’t look like typical 6-1 headers merge collectors, do they?
     
  21. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    572
    Don’t get me wrong. I’m not hating on the GTS.
    Quite the opposite. As a package ... I would rank the GTS as a top 5 Ferrari of all time ... maybe higher. Hardtop convertible naturally aspirated V12 Ferrari and impeccably styled and engineered. Hall of Fame car.

    I’m strictly focusing on the purity of an unassisted and unfiltered Ferrari V12 product and driving experience. I won’t belabor the point any further but saying the GPF V12 engine note is indistinguishable from the non-GPF V12 engine or not at least marginally diminished versus the non-GPF V12 is not a statement I agree with. To say this would imply that one would not choose a non-GPF V12 over a GPF V12. I don’t think that’s a credible position for an enthusiast. And I say this with non-combative kindness and love. And I’m going to leave it there regarding non-GPF purity and preference. Because I love all people.
     
    abdulla.alhajri likes this.
  22. rossodino

    rossodino Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2007
    447
    corona del mar, ca.
    Full Name:
    bruce sansone
    Are those the Electric Turbo's possibly?
     
  23. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
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    A.B
    Non-filtered?

    So you don't think enough computer power in the ESC to run the ISS, catalytic converters, active aero, a DCT, or active suspension is a filter from a purity standpoint? In the grand scheme of things, the GPF mean almost nothing between the two. You might not think so, but I'm quite sure most who know me will call me a proper car and driving enthusiast. That is why I put the driving experience at the forefront, not a GPF. If the slightly diminished sound results in a car that cannot be considered pure from an enthusiasts standpoint, I would question your position as an enthusiast.

    The purity of the car stems from the sum of its parts, not one thing. A V8 can be just as pure as a V12, it's just different. You don't think a 993 GT turbo car delivers a pure and raw experience? What about the 360 CS? LaFerrari? They do.

    You can have an opinion, but you cannot state it as fact and talk about car enthusiasm in those general terms without knowing what you are talking about. Without seat time you simply don't know. From my perspective, a true enthusiast is curious and open-minded, and not someone who only dwells on what once was. That's not the same as not having preferences, but different things offer different experiences. Get behind the wheel of the Lotus based Tesla Roadster S. It might teach you a thing or two about what you perceive as pure from a car enthusiasts standpoint.

    If the 812 VS turns out to be a hybrid, let's see what they come up with. I think a good N/A V12 with a solid well integrated torque fill could be one hell of a fun machine, and every bit as visceral, seductive and crazy as its VS V12 predecessors. Time will tell.
     
  24. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    41,300
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Definitely merge collectors.
     
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  25. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,586
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Glad to see someone appreciate the Ferrari engine magic. The LaF intake is continuously variable as is the 812. The F12TdF is two-stage. This is not a new concept. I have used swapable short/long trumpets for motorcycles depending on the track and type of racing. Having twelve of them continuously adjusting to optimize top and bottom end in a road car is pretty awesome.
     
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