I'm kind of curious what it costs and how heavy it is?
Here are some more road pictures, Thank you Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login These roads are Ferrari Heaven, I will make a video, Ive done this riding and driving for over 30 years, Thank you
That belongs on a track not a public road....just sayin...... Image Unavailable, Please Login The first time I autocrossed the 308 it never occurred to me to remove my watch, bruised the heck out of both wrists yanking the steering wheel back and forth. Its fine in most driving but its a workout at an autocross, I'm certain I'd be a bit faster with power assist (and a running engine now ) but hate the though of adding weight....I can see how it would also make regular driving more pleasant.
Indeed, but this is the first of two issues, that being the rack needs to be faster. I note the vast majority of those on here who've fitted the quicker rack, state it's how the car car should have been specified in the first place. But as you've highlighted, fitting a quicker ratio rack invariably means an increase in weight at parking speeds (not a problem the majority of the time, and a worthwhile trade off for the increased precision and faster turn in, in my experience) but in a car that the steering already loads up noticeably during cornering, the reduction in leverage afforded by the quicker rack, only exacerbates the issue, and in turn makes the steering less manageable. Fitting the EZ EPAS system along with a quick rack allows you to have your cake and eat it, it really is the best both worlds.
Exactly, it's hardly conducive to a pleasant and spirited drive on a twisty backroad. I say this having owned several LHD Porsche 964 RS over the past 18 years, I never had a problem with the weight of the steering on them. The 964 was the first 911 fitted with PAS (apart from the 959) and whilst the RHD RS retained the PAS, the LHD RS were considered the more pure drivers car because they came with manual steering. Sure, the 964 used Macpherson strut front suspension rather than double wishbones, and the 964 was the first 911 to use ABS (again, apart from the 959) so the front suspension had to be completely redesigned to accommodate the negative scrub geometry the ABS system required (a bit like the later 328's) but while the steering was heavy at parking speeds (though totally acceptable) it was truly wonderful once on the move, and there was no evidence of it weighting up excessively under cornering.
I can imagine both are true.....but weight just seems to add up if you don't watch it as my own body will attest Image Unavailable, Please Login
The impact bumper cars (911 SC and 3.2 Carrera) were reckoned to have the worst steering of the aircooled cars, those that proceeded them ie the longhood cars, had nice big steering wheels to improve the leverage available to the driver, whilst the next generation. ie the 964, had power steering ... (LHD 964 RS aside) Speaks volumes really doesn't it ??
The discussion re steering effort is, IMO, largely based on how you use the car. If you regularly use the car for functional missions - go to the store, etc, then the advantage of reduced low speed steering effort is fairly apparent. OTOH, it doesn't much matter if you have heavy low-speed steering once or twice a month. OTOH, as I said in an earlier post, for some years my 328 was my only car. It went to the grocery store, the hardware store, the doctor's office, etc. On more than one occasion it carried 8' 2x4s from Lowes (roof off) and twice it carried full size Christmas trees. I regularly drove it into Annapolis and parallel parked. I can't tell you how many times I cursed the steering effort! But I got lots of 'thumbs up' and favorable comments from folks when they saw the "Magnum PI car" carrying lumber! I said in an earlier post that I considered the steering assist system in question and decided against it because I didn't want to make the required clearance cut in the body. BUT this thread is causing me to rethink my objection...
If it weighs an additional 8lbs I'd be surprised. I've no doubt the vast majority of 308's feature good old fashioned lead acid batteries whose mass would make them wonderful boat anchors. If that steering column/EPAS motor/gearbox assembly at 8lbs is considered too much in exchange for the benefits its fitment confers, I'd suggest investing in a modern lightweight battery, it'll lessen the load over the front wheels whilst parking, and provide the much needed additional current to drive the EPAS motor Win, win.
Good posts, as always , Im 57 and I sill love every aspect of my 328 over my 22 years of ownership, I have never complained to myself about the steering, as a matter of fact, the more resistance I can dial in the better, my air pressures are set perfectly to allow for the 3 % temp increase when hot, and like I said, the grip and feel / feedback is the best a pure driver is ever going to experience, other then F40 / 308 / 288 GTO / etc etc. Thank you
Its not often you get in a cat and mouse with a couple of fast guys at the same time, I was able to pass the guy in the middle, but he held me up , if not, I could have passed the guy in front, I hear what your saying about track riding, with that being said, sometimes you have to push it on the street, thats why they make these bikes to begin with. I myself did my racing and track days, you push things much more on the racetrack, and I cant afford to get hurt, I have a business to run.You can ride hard on the street and still get hurt, I know, but thats the risk you take. For me the risk vs reward has always been in my favor. Thank you
I don't find that it is needed on my '87 328 GTS. I'm 75 years old and weigh 141 lbs. But the vehicle is not a daily driver. My daily drivers have PS. If my errand necessitates lots of stop and go, I take the daily driver with the automatic transmission.
As I said earlier - if the system fit in the 328 as per the EZ Steer ads - no cutting, modification etc, needed to install - I'd have had the system in my 328 several years ago. I was very disappointed when I contacted them to find that the "no cutting" stated in the ad applied to 'most cars,' NOT the 3x8's. I suggested that the ad ought to state, "no cutting for most cars." And further that the listings for the various cars include an asterisk that showed if cutting/modification would be required. They thanked me for my input, which clearly had no effect on their advertising copy. As it is, based on their ad, if you didn't check beforehand, you would receive the system for your 3x8 without realizing that you had to cut a hole until you actually read the installation instructions.
I disagree.... Totally. The Electric power steering is a huge improvement on the 308 / 328 rack. anyone who has owned one for any length of time will admit that while driving in the mountains or on the highway its great, but in town and having to make quick turns in traffic - not so much. and in any parking situation its horrible... to the extent that you are putting huge stress on the wheel, rack and joints. If you have ever had a 308 on a race track you will also know that slow steering does not feel so good when you are trying to nail an apex, and all the weight loads up. It's great he-man talk, but in reality, it needs it. BTW - electric power steering was not around when the 308 was made, and the power to run a pump and associated hoses for a hydraulic steering unit would just have lessened the overall power and basically not fit well in the 308 anyway. Lastly - Lauda only really gave opinions on the feel of the car vs. any real "development" .. and by 74 Mr. Ferrari was out of the day to day running of the factory - and did not actually own the land/buildings any more either having sold them all to FIAT in 72-73, so he really did not care. But he did care that his name still attracted wealthy people so he could keep getting his share of FIAT money. I think any 70's or 80's Ferrari could hugely benefit from the electric assisted steering... ever try driving a Boxer or Testarossa in slow traffic and parking it? ... not much fun.conversely a 412 is amazingly smooth and easy to drive in town and slow speeds, and great out on the road ... and it has power steering.
why are we looking at motorcycles and comparing that to driving a 308/ 328? nothing could be further from each other? and as for roads, try driving a few country roads in Switzerland - say between Villeneuve and Interlakken or go from Davos, to Chavienna in Italy... then tell me about California roads. or even better try toe Abetone pass all the way to Mugello and Florence... and then tell me about how great your arms feel while driving a 308. ( not to mention your leg )
Thank you for your reply. I was posting pics of roads that were taken while out riding one of my bikes just the other day , to post for the OP in UK. There was a photographer at the switchbacks on 74. If the roads are motorcycle friendly they are Ferrari friendly, Ferrari Heaven like I mentioned. California and the South West, have absolutely the best roads, the best scenery, the biggest bluest sky in the world and the best climate all year long, its that simple. The back roads from Los Angeles to Payson AZ , will out do anything Europe has to offer, by a factory of 10, 530Miles in one day , stunning, you should really see for yourself, or maybe Angeles Crest HWY, again 10 times anything from over there .I have no desire to go back to Europe, other than I love the people from the UK and would like to visit there.I know I am So Cal and So west biased, but I have seen with my own eyes, I was in Italy, and there are plenty of pics and James Bond movies to know that what I know is true. One can keep ones small tiny Euro narrow two lane roads , mountainous or not. We have beaches, deserts, mountains, breathtaking, the best roads with plenty of places , wide run off , to pull over and take pics Gods country, its that simple. Thank you ,
I've been to Socal a lot. I would never live there, it's crawling with people, traffic is horrible, smog, super expensive and lots of pretentious people doing unpretentious things... thinking they are curing cancer. IF I was forced to live there I'd have to go to Newport Beach or San Diego. I do like San Francisco way better, but still between Earthquakes, wildfires and extraordinarily high cost of living for not much... I don't get it. However, I'm happy you like it. I just disagree about the roads. Drive the Spluggen pass up and back and then tell me about SO Cal roads. There is much more to life than weather. in defense of the OP, do the drive from Inverness up to John O Groats in a really quick car .. and you will have a great day of driving. OR from from Hollyhead to snodonia, in Wales... or anywhere in Wales... or drive route Napoleon from Gap to Cannes ... or for that matter from Delonagha Ga up to lake keowe SC. ... then tell me about good roads.
I did a little reading last night and figured out that the control box is sending the CAN signals to the power assist unit and a little knob sets the assist level....but the way the units are designed to work is the ECU is supposed to feed the assist level based on vehicle speed and several other factors. This means even though they use a modern assist unit it won't really real like modern power steering unless you have an ECU like mine that will let you add stuff like that and you can figure-out what signals the assist box is expecting. If I ever get the engine running I may take a look at a little more sophisticated power steering upgrade and see if cutting can be avoided....next winter project maybe
Sorry Gino, but posts like this one and your other posts along similar lines, really don't strengthen your case. On the contrary, they're making you look increasingly parochial. I'm not going to argue with you over which is best, because it's a subjective matter, and you are of course entitled to your opinion. But let's not confuse the issue, we're not talking about the quality of the roads here, we're talking about the width and how twisty they are. You state you've been to Italy, but have you been to and driven on the roads of France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Corsica, England, Scotland too ? Roads such as those you've photographed motorcycling on can be found all across Europe : Scotland : Image Unavailable, Please Login Wales : Image Unavailable, Please Login Switzerland : Image Unavailable, Please Login When I talk about threading a 308 without PAS along tight, twisty roads, I mean roads like these : This is tight : This is twisty : We're NOT talking wide, open, sweeping roads such as the ones I've posted images of above, or the ones you've posted images of in this thread. If you're suggesting you could drive your 328 without PAS, comfortably along the roads I've linked to in this video : at a reasonable pace, good for you, but I think most on here would appreciate the benefits of EPAS on such a twisty road.
"...but I think most on here would appreciate the benefits of EPAS on such a twisty road." AND in the Home Depot parking lot!
Really any place they have mountains you can expect fun curvy roads.....and any road named "Creek Rd" will almost certainly be good I've learned. And for sure any parking lot setup for autoX will fun, and a frikin workout to drive in a 308
