430 What was the solution about exhaust back brackets/mounts?

This is all good info. I just bought the Fabspeed headers and cat deletes. I’ve been planning to attach this to the rest of the stock exhaust. Would there still be a need to change the mounts?


Fly fast and take chances

 

Yes, I would still add the mounts !, As they allow the whole system to grow and contract w/ heat up and cool down . It should relieve stress on ALL the exhaust system. even the best systems do fail, crack and break sometimes.
I'm adding top speed headers and top gear resonated test pipes soon converting the end bit to scud style and adding CF front and rear CF aftermarket bumpers
I'm having the system porcelain/ceramic coated by swain tech in NY and may use a special 2,000 deg wrap on top of that !
Not certain what i'm doing for muffler(s ) , tailpipes.
will probably make my own or have them fabricated locally. many people can make exhausts Not really happy w/ most of the aftermarket mufflers and they are grossly overpriced. There is a Capristo valveless muffler on there now
what are you doing for the heat issues ? ,

 

I got my Fabspeed headers with heat blankets included, and they came already attached. My understanding is that will help keep the temp down lower than with the stock setup. And since I’m removing the cats it should also reduce the temp.

My inclination would be to be consistent and get the Fabspeed mounts as well, but others seem to lean toward the Capristo mounts. I’m open to thoughts on that. My primary concern is keeping everything “healthy”. A friend of mine is replacing the motor in his 430 due to the exhaust issue, and that is NOT an experience I’d like to have.


Fly fast and take chances

 

My Capristo manifolds have heat blankets which come with them, i have the oem cats and the valveless Capristo silencer, expansion taken care off by the exp brackets in the picture.
You mention ceramic coating, save your money as off limited use- would you grab hold of the pipes after a run. In regard to wrapping in heat tape, it seems to work fine for a while but then falls apart. If you look on u tube you will find where Dan ( supercar guy) trying to get the remains of the tape off after it fell apart. A right mess. It might take 2000 deg but it falls to bits or gets burnt into the metal surface.

 

Well i would beg to differ. yes blankets do work, very well ! and, they are very expensive .I realise a LOT of Ferrari owners use them as $ is no object and they can afford them . So why not ?

You are wrong about ceramic coating , Namedropping,Swain tech "white lightening "coating is VERY good! it is used by all the top NASCAR racers and they do not waste time and $ w/ things that do not work ! It will block 50 % ( up to ) and then as said wrap can be used on top of that . Many , most guys use the wrong wrap DAN, ( supercar guy ) did too ! ( Sadly, He did NOT use the wrap below) !
He used the wrong type ! So that example is irrelevant I'm afraid..
He also used a local powder coater to apply a ceramic coating which must have been just regular paint as it was inflammable & caught his car on fire ! OOOPS!
we had wrapped pipes for 30+ years w/ NO issues so was surprised to see Ferrari owners having issues.!
we note that some Ferrari owners HAVE had issues w/ exhausts wrapped in lavatape. So MY friend asked DEI ( Design Engineering INC ) what should be used instead? They said :
" The issue on the wrap comes from higher levels of heat. The wrap will crystalize at higher levels of heat. It is still insulating, but it is brittle. When you grab the wrap or if it gets hit by road debris, it can come apart. Typically when customers see this, they grab it and pull on it even further and it then comes off. At this point, they will need a Silica-based wrap. This wrap is pricy, but it will last at maximum temperatures. We do not offer this wrap but it is out there if needed. "( I found several sources, just google "silica wrap".and verify it is the 2,000 deg F type Not all is ! )
"Silica Header Wrap is made from texturized amorphous silica filament yarn woven into a strong and flexible form. Since the yarn is texturized into a bulky form it provides excellent insulating values."
HeaderWrap.jpg Silica Header Wrap is made from leached fiberglass, resulting in a much more wear resistant finished product.
*Sold in standard 2" width, 50' rolls
We thought this commendable, they recommend a product better than ANY they sell !
So the right wrap on top of the best ceramic/ porcelain coating will give better results than blankets and cost thousands less .
And YES ( if you really wanted to you could grasp a pipe, briefly , after a run ! ) we have done that just w/ wrap! and NO burns!
you can use a special high temp paint on top of the wrap to improve the aesthetics the colors are black, white and silver .
Our mechanics, customers and we appreciated the wrap whilst working on our cars and M/c's ! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

that would explain the mess Dan had on his! I know they use this ceramic coating on gas turbines but i have never been convinced by it. In comparison i have never seen it used on industrial diesel exhausts where you would think it would be a great advantage. You never know it might get there yet.

 

Check out the Swain tech web page ! real eye candy and inspiring for all gear heads ! and the amazing array of things they offer ceramic coating for ! It is especially valued by NASCAR racers I understand as they DO run some VERY long 500-600 mile races ! and they need motors and brakes to stay together !
They offer coatings for pistons , disc brake pistons ! calipers,, cylinder heads , combustion chambers ,valves, exhausts , etc I see no reason industrial diesel exhausts could not be coated! ask them !

 

They tend to use air to insulate diesel exhausts, the pipes are in an insulated box lined with ceramic insulation panels. These flat panels are made of a special stainless and filled with 1500 deg C ceramic insulation. The pipes are supported in the air space and the outside of the box is about 35 C, so you can put your hand on it. Not bad for a panel about one inch thick. About 650 C into the blower nozzle ring.

 

My new AP (Vivid Racing) headers are at SwainTech as we speak! I was planning on painting them with high quality/temp paint for aesthetics, but nothing else for heat. Everything I’ve read as well as the respected indi shop says that will be plenty for heat protection. He says he worries more about the heat on 355s/360s. I’ve searched a bunch, but still haven’t found any F430 owners with quality ceramic protected headers have any actual heat issues with other parts of the engine. Am I missing anything?!? Thanks!

 

We do get people changing manifolds and then getting problems from the heat affecting the handbrake operation if no insulation blankets, other people have no probs.

 

I second that. I have a 430 with replacement headers that were ceramic coated inside and out, and after installation it took only two drives before the parking brake cables melted. Had to spring for blankets and never had an issue since.

 

Wow, that’s crazy. Thanks for letting me know! I have heard of adding a little “zircotech” film over some of the sensitive parts may be an option also. I don’t know if anyone on here has used that at all??

And, to stick to this forum, what did you do about the brackets?!?

Thanks!

 

Yes I would say so, the headers swain tech coated are about up to 50 % heatproofed i will also use high temp special 2,000 rated wrap there is ZERO issue w/ wrap IF you use the correct type many DON'T and report issues . you can paint the wrap w/ white,black or silver special high heat paint

Heat soak and heat damage, free radical deterioration to parts is also cumulative not necessarily immediate
we know this well as we live in the desert . many things in the motor compartment can and are affected by heat . any prevention is rewarded in longer life of components. plastics, paint , C F covers etc
The Ferrari CF turns yellow fr heat I just got all my covers re-finished, and now as you can see the airboxes need re-clearing now .
it is reasonable the intake air might be cooler as well so more HP ( or at least not lose some fr hotter air intakes and IAT )
we have extensive experience w/ turbo engines and their motor compartments benefitted greatly fr heat proofing . NA motors will benefit too .
The way you are asking you are discouraging some fr saying DO more as you are asking do I REALLY NEED to do this ? well maybe NO but it certainly will harm nothing !
Many shops will do NOTHING ( almost) for heat abatement. they will make more $ if things wear out , need to be replaced sooner !

Use the Capristo spring mounted muffler brackets they let the system expand and contract help prevent issues

 

Just curious, what headers did you go with? And what ceramic coating did you use? Thanks!

 

It’s a good thing I just ordered all new everything from Fabspeed because I pulled off my diffuser and found this...
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The exhaust mounting bracket was completely broken and detached


Fly fast and take chances

 

Wow that doesn't look like it broke at a weld. it just cracked on the side...

 

Yep. Completely broken off. I wonder how long it has been like that.


Fly fast and take chances

 

Well I started to put all my cars receipts into a book today during a boring conference call. When reviewing the Ferrari dealer service records it looks like I had both OEM brackets replaced at different times because they broke. One when the car had about 1800 miles and the other with about 7,000 miles. Since my car is a 2009, I thought it would have had the latest brackets with the extra welds from the start, but maybe not. The new ones did make it to the current mileage of 13,500 and looked uncracked when I had them replaced with the Fabspeed brackets.

 

When I bought my F430 2 years ago I noticed the two rear brackets were cracked completely through and bought replacement parts from Ricambi. After I read several threads I decided to not install them. They are sitting in the same box shipped in and the exhaust still is solid. I wouldn't put anything else back on there. I too have OEM manifolds. Those things cracked for a reason...

 

I would say in true F chat there are lots of opinions! look most are purists and will never do anything but stock, Standard, OEM I get that.
BUT in this case it is a COMMON flaw fault , known issue that OEM manifolds DO fail ,and stock brackets break even MK 2 manifolds fail so the cautious, prudent path is to fit aftermarket headers
(Yes and I do NOT care if they are louder! and I AM having them ceramic coated by swain tech coatings, the best ! -they do it for most all the NASCAR racers
purists have a cow ( as usual ) and the Ferrari classiche ( sp ? ) will be offended!
so, DO as you choose !
remember doing nothing IS making a choice !
( Bad one IMHO )
I KNOW the proper fix is to fit the Capristo spring-loaded mounts . it's logical AND my real rocket engineer friend, (who works at Raytheon ! ) says it is THE solution as it allows the system to expand and contract fr heat .
there is more than an INCH of growth when they get hot !
You can see it !
He believes it helps keep the stock manifolds fr cracking too .
don't be cheap just buy them , use them then probably? NO issue .
We always used spring-loaded mounts on all our racing M/C too ! helps prevent cracking,
BUT exhausts DO still fail sometimes! they are under high stress and severe thermal extremes
VERY difficult to engineer/ build to bulletproof ! say impossible ?
I also know I'm fitting aftermarket headers and catless test pipes
I have NO physical or emissions inspection. I have license plates good for forever ! they NEVER expire !
works for me .
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A friend of mine is in the process of replacing the engine in his 430 because his OEM MKII manifolds cracked, the debris got into at least one cylinder and ruined it. I’m currently in the process of replacing my stock exhaust with Fabspeed everything because this is such a widely known issue. It seems to me that replacing it is a requirement. What you choose to replace it with is a matter of preference.

Admittedly I ordered all Fabspeed components because I like consistency, but the Capristo spring mounts make sense to me because they allow for expansion and contraction. Even on the stock exhaust you’ll find springs where the manifolds join the cats, for that very reason. I will likely get the Capristo mounts soon as well.

FYI these are the bolts/spring that attach the stock manifolds to the stock cats:
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Fly fast and take chances

 

Any info about your friends car? What year was it? What exhaust is on the car? How many miles on the car?

Thanks,
Cheers,
Corey

 

It’s an ‘06 with the MKII stock exhaust. I think it’s pretty low miles, but I’m not sure exactly.


Fly fast and take chances

 

Weird. The 06 wouldn't have the MKII exhaust manifolds unless it was changed already. It would have also had the original brackets that weren't reinforced. The MKII were introduced sometime in 2008.