The 360/430 models have engine access panels behind the seats but on 348/355 engine needs to be pulled out to do a major service. This might be a strange question, but has anyone ever tried to create an access panel on a 348/355 to be able to do major engine maintenance without pulling out the engine? I don't own any of the above-mentioned models, but i just wondered if there were any people who attempted to make something like that to save some money. If there's a will, there's a way right? There are a lot of 348/355 models out there with deferred maintenance, and i suspect that it's mostly because major service required an expensive engine removal. I know resale value might be affected if the rear firewall is cut but maybe there is someone who did something like that, if it's even possible. What are your takes on this issue...
The timing belt on the 348 CAN be replaced without removing the engine/subframe, but it's a tricky procedure and it isn't recommended. It isn't really all that difficult to pull the subframe, and it makes for a much more thorough service. The reason that no one cuts an "access panel" through the firewall is that it wouldn't do you any good unless you wanted to have a good look at the front of the fuel tank. You still could not get at the front of the engine.
Interesting idea, I have been wondering about this as well. I wouldn’t do it on my car but it sounds like a possible solution for someone with especially high maintenance requirements. Problems with cutting a hole in the panel probably is that it would compromise the strength of the chassis, and even if you could fix that you would need to find alternative place for the tank and CPU units stored behind the seats. But I agree that it is strange that no one has presented this solution after all discussions about in-situ cam belt change etc.
There is a fellow here in Sweden who takes the gas tank out when changing cam belt. According to him it is a lot easier than taking the engine out. I wouldn´t know cause I haven´t done neither yet. It sure is an interesting idea though. //B//
Hm... so then technically you do not need to remove the engine if you can just take out the fuel tank? I think not many people come up with these kind of technologically innovative shotcuts and solutions because not many people actually do their own maintenance.
Strengh of the chassis would not be really compromised if you make an access panel that can be bolted in back and reinforced. I have never seen photos of an exposed area behind the seats in a 348/355... Does anyone have any photos? A photo of an access panel in a 360/430 can give some ideas to people as well probably.
Had the same thought on a engine access panel from the rear cabin. Surprised this never really went anywhere
I saw a 355 where the gas tank was relocated with a custom tank in the front trunk area and an access panel cut out for the engine. Can't remember if it was on Fchat or somewhere else. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/relocate-fuel-tank-to-allow-engine-in-service.435448/
And the gas tank too, and the cross brace? Ratarossa has a YouTube video on how to do a 355 belt change without removing the engine. It was horrifying. I'm surprised he didn't kill himself.
the relative merits of dropping the engine or the fuel tank have been discussed several times here over the decades. Some people can get quite "passionate" about the subject -- to each their own, but in my own personal opinion and balancing all the pros and cons, engine out is the best way (and this is the reason my engine is currently on the deck for its major).
Engine removal and install are not difficult. Friend and I just re-installed the engine in my 348 in two hours. 16 bolts and some plumbing and wiring.....Just need two floor jacks and a wheeled dolly under the assy. Having the whole assy out provides the opportunity to address all the small details to do a proper job. JGW
Maybe I'm just the nervous type. I just don't like the idea of using a breaker bar on a component (or putting your body weight on top the car when the car is balanced on jackstands. Admittedly, he did use remote monitoring when juggling some of the heavier components.
No point in butchering a car to make an access panel, there is a fuel tank there, and pipes, and cables and so forth. The fuel tank can be removed but it is a bigger PITA than actually just pulling the engine out as designed by Ferrari. You have to drop the engine mounts and jack the engine up so you can remove the front pulley enough to be able to get the belts off/on, THEN there is not enough room to fit a degree wheel to dial the cam timing in as well. Its hard to see what your doing, there is not a lot room you'll be hitting your head all the time, it pains me to even think about it. Also, I would not like to be shimming a 348 engine with it still in the car, or doing any number of the other things which need doing whilst the service is happening. After doing the engine out on my 348, I found its not difficult at all to remove the engine, it is SO much easier to do all the other things including properly dialing in the cam timing, and so forth, replacing chain tensioners, under the front cover which requires the sump to come off, replacing bearings in the front cover and front of the block, hell I even replaced the CV Boots with it out of the car which was a piece of cake......seriously, screw doing all that with the engine still in the car..... Pulling the fuel tank out is a hack and its not necessary, Ferrari designed the car with the engine out service accounted for, it is so easy to do I would not even give the fuel tank out hack method one thought. It took me 3hrs, talking my sweet time to get the engine out of my 348 the first time, I reckon I will do it in 2hrs next time now that I have done it once. Seriously, that is totally reasonable, why do you want to do any quicker, which you probably wouldn't anyway as the tank is not designed to pop out to do the major service. Do it right!! I don't understand this "fuel tank out is easier" nonsense. I watched that video Ratarossa did on his 355 taking the fuel tank out, and it looked like a complete nightmare, not to mention the visits to the back doctor you'd need afterwards... But hey, people are gonna do what people wanna do.......
With the amount of work that would be required to remove interior pieces, fuel tank and fab the access panel I think that just doing it the intended way would be just about the same amount of labor. I look at the engine out as a chance to get the engine in front of me out in the open to get the valve covers off and refinished (the heat kills the paint) and get after any of the other potential oil or coolant leaks addressed, and a good cleaning while its out. By taking the extra time and effort to get the whole drivetrain out every 5+ years to me is well worth it. The key is to take the time and not rush it, I don't care if my car stays on the lift for the whole winter.
Agreed. Drop the engine. It's not that hard. There are checklists available to make sure you got all the lines and connectors. A lift helps tremendously, but isn't required. sjd
I think you will find that after dropping the engine once it’s not that hard. The easiest way would be to drop the fuel tank but to do that it would be easier to remove the engine and then design it so the fuel tank can be removed next time. The tank fittings are plast and rubber so the nice thing about not dropping the fuel tank is that those weaker pieces are never removed or damaged or even moved. Dropping the engine takes very little time and if you want to see all the other little things that are not still perfect it makes everything so easy once it’s out. little things like painting valve covers so the engine looks new are so easy when it’s out. Cleaning the engine so it looks new. The 355 having a dry clutch gets quite dirty in my experience just from enjoying it. For me taking the engine out every 5 to 7 years means the engine bay looks brand new every 5 years which is what I actually enjoy. My engine has never really had oil leaks and after 5 years the engine is quite dirty.
The car was designed that way and other than mostly electrical connections the engine drops easy. This is not like my fords chevs etc where you need to take half the front end apart to drop an engine
The home made access panel initially seems like a good idea, until you think it through: The worst part of the belt change is the cost if you take it to a shop. One assumes if you are having the service done by a pro, that they have done this before, so are familiar with the process and can drop the sub frame pretty efficiently (even though they charge $$$$). For putting in an access panel, who is doing the work? Yourself? If you can do that, then you are already doing the regular service yourself, so you're already saving that shop charge. If you don't have those skills, then you would have to have a shop do the conversion. First of all they wouldn't do it because of the need to modify the cross beam that blocks access to the crank pully. They don't want that liability. Second, if they were willing to do it, the custom fabrication would cost the equivalent of about 5 regular belt services, so what's the point? Thirdly, if you did the modification, when you did the service now, when you remove the seats, the panel and the fuel tank, the belts would be tough to get to because they would be quite a distance back in the * hole". You are working through the space the fuel tank occupied, so the belts, tensioners, etc are quite a distance away. Then if you want to get the water pump off for a rebuild, check the valve clearances etc. it would be so inconvenient, you would find in the end it's easier, cheaper, more convenient etc. to just do it as God and Enzo intended. In short, if you converted it yourself, the time and effort involved would be the equivalent of about 5 engine pulls, and you're still stuck with lousy engine access. If you could talk a shop into doing it, the cost would be equivalent to a lifetime of standard belt services. Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Everyone forgets there's a gas tank in the way. The engine WILL NOT be right there once you cut the firewall... How long would that take? Drop the fuel tank, cut the hole, make a way to make the hole removable in the future, put the fuel tank back, prepare to do your service: 1. remove seats 2. remove fuel tank 3. remove newly made panel...(it's about here where you could have just dropped the engine out) 4. contort around structure to do your service 5. line up the cam marks and set the tensioner (what, I just HAD to) 6. install all that stuff again. sjd
Yes, also not sure what it takes to remove the rear carpet but probably not easy, along with ECU and wiring for 5.2 cars. A/C and power steering lines in the way along with a crossmember in front of the crankshaft. Helllllll no
The vehicle was designed to have the engine removed for the belt service....period. If anyone tries to circumvent this process, then perhaps they shouldn't have bought a Ferrari.
