360 intermittent cranking | FerrariChat

360 intermittent cranking

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by stevo686, Mar 13, 2021.

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  1. stevo686

    stevo686 Rookie

    Nov 25, 2016
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    Stephen Southwell
    Hi my 1999 360 sometimes wont crank. I came home from a drive last summer and pulled onto my drive and turned the 360 off. I left it for several minutes and then tried to restart it to put it away. As I turned the key it made a sound similar to trying to change gear (I know this because I checked it wasn't in gear and put it into 1st and back into neutral to see if this had any effect). The starter never even turned the car over or engaged. I did some quick reading and put it down to being to hot after the drive and heat soak as it was a very hot day. I pushed the car into the garage and the next time it started fine and was ok. I thought it must just have been hot. I have been out to it today to run it up and its doing it again. It turns the immobilizer off as normal but it would not crank just make a humming noise. I turned the battery cut off in the front off for about 30 seconds then tried again. It cranked straight away but stopped before it started. I then tried cranking again but it just made the funny sound again as if it was trying to change gear. It just seems like its not sensing its in Neutral or a sensor is not working. Please if anyone has any ideas or has had this problem I would be very grateful for a solution. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dominick
    Tell us what happening on dash ..lights errors etc

    Could be as simple as a new battery

    Sometimes the brake switch starts to go ..if it happens again ..try pushing very hard on brake

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
  3. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #3 Qavion, Mar 13, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
    The brake pedal switch activates on my car at less than half pedal travel. It's very unlikely pushing harder would help. The plunger in the microswitch may be stuck and not releasing as you push the pedal away from the microswitch

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    Check to see if the microswitch plunger is moving when you push the pedal. In Ferrari-speak, "push button" = microswitch.

    Have said, that, I don't think a microswitch would cause this symptom.
     
  4. stevo686

    stevo686 Rookie

    Nov 25, 2016
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    Dash lights ok... nothing on show "Engine check OK" Brake switch is something I'll check )
     
  5. stevo686

    stevo686 Rookie

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    I could not understand why Master OFF and ON made a difference thou
     
  6. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    That would be good for me, especially if you're good with a multimeter. I'm trying to put together a wiring diagram for the circuit. I see there are some cars with 4 pin switches and some with three.
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    I'm not sure of the internals on the second switch. Perhaps the unused contact (3) is a "normally closed" switch.

    As you can see, the brake pedal switch affects a lot of systems.

    Computers sometimes come good when you reset the power, but just the time you took to do this may have allowed the car to cool down.
     
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  7. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #7 Qavion, Mar 13, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
    Sorry, that wire on pin 1 of the first switch should be brown-red.


    ... and I'm going to regret throwing that diagram together too quickly.. I got my wires crossed. The roof ECU and the immobiliser don't use the brake pedal input.

    Revised diagram here...

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  8. stevo686

    stevo686 Rookie

    Nov 25, 2016
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    Stephen Southwell
    Thanks guys but battery voltage is 12.8v and brake light switch is working ok.
     
  9. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    I guess there is always the usual car stuff:
    Faulty starter solenoid
    Faulty starter relay
    Faulty starter inhibit relay (i.e. the inhibit of start with the battery charger in use)

    These relays are behind the left hand seat (in red)

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    I'm assuming you have an F1 car? Looking at the wiring diagrams, the F1 TCU controls the starter relay.
     
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  10. stevo686

    stevo686 Rookie

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    Thanks ...........this is definitely useful and sommething to go at.
     
  11. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    There's also a fuse associated with the starting system, but it doubt a faulty fuse would cause this kind of problem.

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    How did you check your brake switch? Do you have the four wire type? (one of the wires may be a jumper wire).
     
  12. stevo686

    stevo686 Rookie

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    I just checked the switch was operating ok as in brake lights working OK......
     
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  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Are you sure this is not an alarm/immobilizer problem? The immobilizer rearms 120 seconds after the alarm is disarmed if she is not started, and arms 60 seconds after the ignition is turned off and the driver side door opens. Check your fob battery and make sure the contacts have not spread or are making bad contact. Remove the battery, pinch the contacts closer, reinsert and then spin the battery while holding the contacts to get rid of any corrosion.
     
  14. stevo686

    stevo686 Rookie

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    The alarm fob seems to work but I have just ordered a new battery just to make sure.
     
  15. stevo686

    stevo686 Rookie

    Nov 25, 2016
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    Hi Guys thanks for your help. Here is a little update. I looked down towards the starter connection to see if I could (wiggle) the wire. There were 2 small'ish wires near the end of the starter. One fell off as I touched it. It was connected to a spade terminal with a very tiny hole in the spade. It is still in the female connector and just came off. I thought great this is the starter wire and that's my problem the spade terminal has come adrift. I thought I'll connect my meter to it and check it gets voltage when I turn the starter on. Well when I connected it it read 10 volts straight away. I thought weird. I also wiggled the other wire which I now believe is the starter connection. I really cant see and just felt as best I could. The good news is the car cranked straight away and several times. Now I'm wondering what is the other wire and what should it be connected to. I need to raise the car and remove the undertray to see and reconnect it. Does anyone have any idea what it should be connected to or what other connections are anywhere near this area. ?????
    Thanks in advance.
     
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  16. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Can you take a snap shot ?

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    10 volts? Sounds like your battery is flat.

    There should only be one small wire on the starter (white), although somewhere between the starter and connector "26H/12H", there will be a splice ("S172H") which splits the wiring into two white wires.

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    The wires are recombined at splice S120H and then go to the starter relay. I assume the duplicate white wires are for extra current carrying capacity.
     
  18. stevo686

    stevo686 Rookie

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    Yes Ill get a pic of the lead :)
     
  19. stevo686

    stevo686 Rookie

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  20. stevo686

    stevo686 Rookie

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    Stephen Southwell
    This is the wire with the spade still connected. Its resting on the aluminium aero that runs under the gearbox. It fell out from near the starter when I barely touched it.
    Any ideas ?? . The good news is the car starts and runs but this could just be because I wiggled the other wire which I believe is the starter connection. Or is there a connection between what this wire is and cranking ???

    Thanks again for any help. :)
     
  21. stevo686

    stevo686 Rookie

    Nov 25, 2016
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    Hi Ive added some pics below.
     
  22. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Ian I was going to write that you're becoming our electrical guru or go to guy but
    I will quickly correct myself and announce that YOU ARE ALREADY that guy. Bravo for helping
    so many people in an area not easily understood (the mechanical ones like me).

    Thanks a bunch for taking the time.
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  23. tonino ct

    tonino ct Karting

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  24. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    I think Steve is saying there are two wires. The starter wire has been reattached and the car starts.

    I see the oil temperature sender has a single wire and is in that general location.

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    I guess you haven't yet checked to see if there are any gauges not working.

    The wire should be brown under the sheath.
     
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  25. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    It's rather ironic that I haven't seen a F360 for years, and never worked on one :D You may find a few errors in my diagrams due to my lack of familiarity with this car, but putting wiring diagrams together does help you get a better understanding of your car.

    I wasn't sure what the engine oil temperature sender was doing under the gearbox/transaxle until I saw this diagram. See item (2)

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